Rachel on the Loose!! (ft @vanderpodrecaps!!)

Emily Rose calls upon Vanderpump Rules podcast extraordinaire Lyndsay of @vanderpodrecaps to discuss the Podcast Debut of the CENTURY: Rachel Goes Rogue. 

Rachel Leviss is BACK to tell HER SIDE of the story, bringing along some trusty ...friends? to help her divulge all the juicy, cringey, puzzling details of her torrid affair with one Tom Sandoval. 

We speculate and react like the best of them, and if you just don't have the heart to listen to her, be sure to listen to us!! 

Follow Lyndsay on IG @vanderpodrecaps
Find her Recaps on Reddit: /u/AdditionalWar8759 

Transcript

  Hello, hello, hello. This is Who the Fuck Knows with Emily Rose. I'm Emily Rose, here today, kind of on a whim, to discuss a magnificent event that happened. Rachel Levis, formerly known as Raquel Levis, Dropped her first episode of her podcast, Rachel Goes Rogue, and I could not think of a better person to have on to talk about this podcast than the one and only Lindsay of Vanderpod Recaps.

Welcome back, Lindsay. Hello, hello. Thank you.  I was,  I knew I was going to have you on the show very soon because of course Vanderpump Rules is coming back at the end of the month. And when,  as soon as it dropped, because I was up at five when it dropped, I was like, Oh, I have to message Lindsay. But then I said, Wait a minute.

Maybe give her time to wake up and live her life for a second. But I'm just so glad that you came on and that you were able to do it today Because it dropped today, so it's very fresh on our minds, and I actually listened to it twice I listened to it right before we got on so I could I could have all my fresh memories How are you feeling?

How are you doing? Um, it's been a crazy day  Okay, I knew that today would be wild with this podcast dropping, um, but I was so when I saw that you messaged me because when I was, I told you this when I was listening to it, I was like, oh, Me and Emily would have things to say. So when I saw your message, I was like, yes, she knows. 

Immediately. And, uh, for those of you who don't know, if you haven't listened to my other episodes with Lindsey, Lindsey is a Vanderpump Rules and now kind of Bravo in general, I think podcast recapper, she does write ups of the podcasts and it is extremely helpful, particularly for those episodes that you just can't, you just can't put yourself through.

I know a lot of people said that this was one that they would not be listening to so that they were very grateful to you though, I think that those people are full of shit in my opinion,  but yeah, so let's just get right into it. I want to know. Because they released the teaser for the one minute or was it maybe it was a couple more minutes.

It was a few minutes Yeah, it was a few minutes  When I when I had Rob Schulte on  So it was right before Christmas, maybe the week before Christmas What were your thoughts going into this episode and and did it was it what you expected? Was it less than more than what do you think?  So I personally think it was better than I expected.

There, listening to the trailer, I felt like I wasn't sure what direction She was going in and with this episode, there's a lot of things that I liked. There's some things that I have questions and didn't really care for, but overall, I thought  I didn't hate listening to it. I'm not gonna lie, when she first started it with, I am Rachel Savannah Leavis, at first I was like, oh no.

Where are we going?  I don't know.  Just something about that sentence. I was like, and even my friend, he was texting me about it too. And he was like, but then later on, he was like, wait, do I kind of like this? And I,  like I said, I thought it was better than I thought it would be. I do know what that said. I do think the, whoever.

Was with her the, in the podcast, um, well, I'm sure we'll talk more about them, but the producers, I guess I would call them. Yeah. Yeah, but  I, I felt like  beforehand there was definitely either a script or something laid out as far as talking points you can definitely tell. However, I do think there were kind of points when there was like true reactions coming from everyone.

And so I think there were like those moments that you could see Um But I do think there were moments of kind of like leaning questions, but not as bad as Bethany's interview. And my biggest thing with this,  another just main takeaway is this should have been the first time we heard from Rachel, that Bethany interview.

I still think. Looking back, I think she, Rachel, is still very, like, in a heated place in that Bethany interview, and I don't get that vibe, but because of that Bethany interview, and I know, I get it, people are going to compare, right? And there are some differences in it, so I do get that. Yeah. Well, she actually starts off, one of the first things that she says is that she's in a room of women that have really supported her.

Um, and the conversation that she has. So she does a little bit of a monologue. I am Raquel Savannah Levis. And then she talks about how it's kind of scary doing a podcast. And honestly, I was like, girl, I can't listen to you talk about. Whether or not you're gonna, we're here, we're here, we're in the podcast, like I can't, but it was interesting the role that these, for, I guess, I'm going to call them producers because I can't think of another word for them.

I call them I heart ladies. I heart ladies. They really. And my friend and I were texting about this. I was not a fan at first, but once we got to those, the real reactions, I kind of realized I've actually loved them the whole time. And then on my second listen, I realized how, um, Imperative they were to moving the story along.

And I, it kind of felt like rather than,  rather than them interviewing her necessarily or whatever, she was kind of having a conversation with them that we were in on. And I thought that that was interesting. I'm definitely interested to see.  If that's gonna continue, like, if these ladies stick with her, I'll definitely be interested to see how that, how that goes.

What, do you kind of feel the same way, or do you want her to fly on her own? I, so,  from, uh, them, like, they definitely had moments where it felt like they were fangirling and had true, like, laughing.  Especially when Rachel's talking about, like, the first time her and Tom hooked up, at one point, one of them, like, gasped, and I was like, oh, they're, like, really, like, do not know anything.

Like what, you know what I mean? The story. And so there I go back and forth. If we're in like a comedic standpoint, I enjoyed them, but I,  but the thing is, is I can't picture Rachel just being by herself on a podcast. I don't know if she should have to have a really good outline and really would have to flow.

And that's hard to do for anyone doing a solo podcast. I think that's extremely hard to do. I give people and you all the credit. And so  I just.  A part of me  kind of wishes, like, if she did have a co host, and maybe we'll see more of this, this is only the first episode. They would, like, there's still some, like, hard hitting questions that I would like answered, but I don't know if they're going to ask that because they're, Don't seem to be familiar with the show, but it's only the first episode.

So I am curious if we are going to see more of them or how this will shift. I honestly was expecting maybe to hear Bethany when she said these I heart women are with me. Then I heard the voices and I was like, Oh, I don't know who these, these women are, but they did have me laughing quite a bit. They did.

And I'll be, I'm going to be totally honest.  I was.  Involved in her telling of the story much the same way that they were. So I was unclear as to whether this was their first time hearing it, or if they were just like, because I too gasped. Like, there was something she said that I, she gasped, they gasped, and I gasped.

I'm like, oh, you know this story, you know, but there was something really Captivating, and we'll get there, but there was something really captivating about the way that she told her story that I didn't expect from her, if I'm going to be totally honest. Um, and so, we start off and she, oh, I got lost in your notes, not mine, because you wrote the recap.

Um, she starts off and she talks about, she goes on a very long I don't want to say tangent, but she goes on and on about her being nervous and she didn't want to come back to the entertainment industry. And something else that I didn't catch until my second listen, she said she isn't necessarily going to be responding to the show, to Vanderpump Rules Season 11 as it airs, but that she has, like, a plan and a therapist and she's, for, A plan for how she's going to have episodes the same week as the show airing.

And I was thinking, well, wouldn't it just be  wonderful? If, for some reason, she did start to respond to the show, because if she's truly out, she can, she, she even mentioned in the episode at some point, like, there were things that were signed she couldn't, could and couldn't say, and she still can and can't say, but I'd, I'm kind of like, this would be the ultimate So, um, yeah. 

Comeuppance, if she could just sit on this podcast every week and get that recap audience and those recap downloads the way that everybody else did all last season, I don't know, I would be I'd be kind of impressed with her. I don't know if she has it in her, I don't know if she would do it. She said there's a plan, but she didn't say she wasn't going to recap it necessarily, so I thought that was interesting.

I don't know if you caught that. Yeah, I did. Well, that whole section really stood out to me because I could see her intent. Of wanting not to respond to everything. However, I do think, particularly in the reality world,  people, and I feel like I would be the same way, because I really, like, struggle with people's, like, anything they would say about me.

But they have this need to respond to everything. And I feel like they all, we've seen it, they all back and forth on podcasts. This one said this, this one said that. So I feel like her intent. Might be to not respond to everything  the part that I'm so fascinated with and I talked about this on Reddit is Her, like, the therapist that she's working with, because a lot of people are giving this therapist that we don't know shit, and I said this on my, on Reddit, that, because a little background, like, on me, like, I was a therapist before I had my son, and now I'm working, again, on getting, like, my licensing stuff, and the whole, like, point of, like, a therapist is, like, to meet the client where they're at, so I would like to hope that her, or the therapist and Rachel have, like, processed and talked about, like,  The pros and cons of like watching season 11.

It sounds like they watched season 10 and then  kind of reflected on that and being like because the therapist might not think it's a good idea for Rachel to be Watching all this because like Rachel said it could be triggering but ultimately like that's not the therapist decision like it's Rachel's decision on what she wants to do so that the best thing for a therapist do is to meet her where she's at and I it's so wild like also Rachel's a public figure right so like that's a whole other level of trying to guide that so I just think that This therapist sounds like, okay, this is what Rachel's going to do, so I'm going to try to meet her and then check in.

I'm sure they're checking in all the time. It sounds like they're going to watch an episode and check in. I actually think that  of any way to watch the show, that is the best way for her. Honestly. therapist, because unless she's gonna go Truly rogue unless she's really gonna or go completely off the map and have literally nothing to do with the show Change your name again.

I don't know and like, you know get a new identity for real for real like it's gonna come up She's gonna hear things. She's gonna read things and the best way to get I think the whole cast probably needs a therapist to watch the show with. Oh,  you'll actually be very proud of me. I have not engaged in the Reddit discourse around this episode of the podcast.

So I feel really great. What, what are they saying over there? What are they, what are they talking about?  It is more Sandoval's podcast was very much all negative. For them. And honestly, I would say like 99. 9%. This is a very interesting mix because it's so interesting how we all can listen to a podcast and get so different like interpretations.

There's one hand, where people are like, I enjoyed this. She's taking accountability and then there's the other people who are like there is zero accountability in this lies, lies, lies. And I, I find that so interesting because I was reading that reading those comments and I was like thinking about this like topic of accountability and I was like, you know,  I said this to other people like it is. 

I think it is hard because I think in Bethany's podcast, I was like, she isn't taking accountability, but I think it's hard. And I honestly think she, for the most part, did take accountability in this podcast. And it was this, it is this fine line of like,  Our behaviors like come from things so she has to tell you what mindset she was in and why this happened and that is taking accountability.

Also, when she told the story of like when her and Tom like hooked up, she very much could have said, because in my opinion, I think he was laying it on pretty thick first. And he, but she also like reciprocated right so they both were involved, but she could have said no he hit on me first and she did it and Tom on a podcast said that she, oh I'm this vulnerable 40 year old man and I have a girl, I have a girlfriend and she knows that.

That's not how she told the story. So to me,  it's interesting when I saw people saying she took no accountability whatsoever. And I was like, I actually think she did a pretty decent job at that. I thought it was a lot better than the Bethany interview. So that that's like the main takeaways on Reddit that I'm seeing is still the accountability. 

I would say, yeah. And I think  people are, from what I remember from the Bethany thing, And from what I can probably deduce is going on on Reddit,  I think that people keep mixing up like  Accountability and, uh, remorse, or like, or a specific remorseful attitude that they will see from her. And, just like in true crime podcasting, you can't, you know, you can't tell someone how to grieve.

You can't always predict that because someone is grieving away that they're the murderer. Or because they are, uh, Not engaging in the search one day that they are the one who knows where the missing person is, whatever it is. Like, you, you kind of have to remember that everybody does things differently, and I don't think that she was, well,  we'll get there, and we, we, we can jump around too, but I, I will say that there were, some of her tone, this is why I wanted to see if there was a video, and there, there isn't, which sucks, because I'd love to see video.

Her tone in telling the Tom story,  Was a little confusing and made me a little uncomfortable. Cause I, not so much that like, well, yeah, it felt like she was kind of like glorifying it or like fantasizing about it a little bit. And I was like, girl.  That was not cute, girl. That was not a good look, babe. But, um, but she still  also said, like, yes, that was bad.

It also kind of sounded like she was embarrassed and kind of cringing at herself. So, I don't know. I don't know what the Reddit people want. We're about to get to the I did I did engage in some Reddit discourse, but only on one specific topic. Only on one specific topic. Um,  but we'll we'll get there in just a second.

Uh, so Yeah, she goes on about how, well, she says that she almost didn't do it. She almost didn't do the podcast, and the producers are like, Yeah, we didn't even know until, like, last night that we were gonna do it.  And then, they, they're, the producers, the iHeartLadies are very good about keeping it going, And I think, I think Rachel needs that. 

Whether she'll need it for the whole show, I don't know, but I think it was helpful to keep her on task because she was, she'll, she'll ramble, child. And, she, they asked her, well, why did you, what was the main reason for you not going on to season 11? Uh, she said that she, first she says, well, she's, doesn't want to be with Tom.

And I was like, that's interesting to be the first thing out of your mouth.  Like, tight. Like, that makes sense. I just didn't expect her to say it like that. And then she kind of alluded to this thing, and we kind of get into it with the Graham stuff, where she felt like if she came on the cast, there was just going to be a narrative that was going to work against her, essentially. 

And they ask her if she considered going back, she said yeah, she did consider it, but, uh, well, and here, because I'm reading it, uh, it says there's all this, uh, I was going along with all this deception and going along with these lies that ate me up, and part of that is my fault. I chose to put myself in that situation, it was a really bad choice, and I'm suffering the con consequences now. 

Listen.  It doesn't, her tone, her, like, she, that's taking accountability. It doesn't matter that she's not like, you know, ripping her chest open and crying and like, sobbing. Like, I don't think she's that sorry, necessarily, that it happened. I think that she, I think that she feels like,  I don't know. I don't know how she feels.

I, very difficult, very difficult to put to words how she feels. Well. And here's the thing, the thing with Rachel, I've noticed a couple things about her. One, she's a very literal person, which we will get into some of that. Um, and then she, um, I think has a nervous laughter to her. You will notice, and I know some people are going to, are coming for her for that, cause like she's just laughing the whole time.

I do truly think a lot of it comes from nerves.  And she, she still is like a hard person to read. But with this, When she's talking about, like, I think where people are struggling with her  decision on, like, coming to season 11, it's like, on the Bethany interview, she talked, she mainly made it seem like it was about money.

And now, and then in the trailer, it was, I didn't want Ariana to have to Kind of like feel the way that I felt when I had to like  film with James and things like this and now  it is I Didn't want to put myself in a position to be with Tom. I am the kind of person I think it's a mixture of all of those things I think when Rachel seemed to be in this angry stage, it seemed to be like they're not giving me The money that I think I deserve, but if I, I don't know, maybe I like to see the best of people, but I honestly think this seemed like the true authentic, authentic answer.

And I think it was very kind of like, I don't know, I think it's kind of brave for a person to say, like, I. knew I wasn't strong enough to be in this position, and I was just going to go right back to my Tom ways. And I fully think if she would have came back to season 11 right away, her and Tom, they probably would be still, I don't know, figuring, well Tom would be like, we're still figuring it out, or something, if she would still be sucked into this whatever.

So I thought this part like, did take accountability, and like she said, she was like the worst version of herself, and she seemed like she, Was going through it and it doesn't excuse her her like actions or anything and Arianna never has to like care about her or like do whatever but the girl herself has to move on in some way and she has to like forgive herself you can't just hold on to all that and at least if she's not remorseful at least she's not pretending Sandoval is pretending to be remorseful I give  I give people more credit and I always say this about Sandoval if he would just be like you know what  Fuck that bitch.

I was so mad at Ari. You know what I mean? He, cause he like, wants to say that, and he wants to be more nasty, but he  tones it down. Now, Rachel isn't saying that by any means, but like, people are like, where's the remorse? Where's the remorse? And while we may want people to be remorseful, some people may not be, but also Her remorse may come out in different ways.

Maybe her remorse is more of like,  Ugh, like cringey, I felt embarrassed, or things like that. Maybe her remorse looks different. I don't know. She is one, she is hard to read. But, I,  I feel like her feelings and thoughts are more genuine than Sandoval's when it comes to this. Oh, a hundred percent. And I will always prefer a full, uh, going the full Monica.

If you will, and just  being a complete and utter villain being like, Oh no, fuck all of you bitches. Every, not only just this one, every single one and the one in prison too. Okay. Like that is what I am all for. Now. Raquel's not going to do, Rachel's not going to do that. Okay. But I appreciate and I appreciate her for where she's at much like.

a therapist is supposed to. Um, I, I consider myself her therapist, obviously.  Oh my gosh, the dream. I have a dream. Um, and so she goes, she goes into, she kind of reflects on her making some unhealthy relationship choices. Personal decisions, drinking, uh, at one point she does say it, and I'm not sure if we're quite there yet, she does imply that, uh, and I didn't like this, that her cast members were encouraging her to drink, it's not that  I don't believe her, I absolutely believe that her cast members were encouraging her to drink, but I also feel like you have some autonomy over that,  and I think that she should have, cause there is something to get into there, about the pressure to drink, but I don't think that that's like, on any of the individual cast members.

I think that that's more of an environmental pressure and I wish that she would have Dove into that, uh, but maybe she was exhausted from that with Bethany, who knows? Right. Yeah, I agree. Um, so then she, they ask her if she's still connected to Tom Sandoval in some way, and she says that she put him on a pedestal, and he really validated her, and, uh, she realized that she has a pattern of this, of putting these guys that she kind of has an infatuation with, or, Respects or looks up to on a pedestal. 

Then she says, then my friendships suffer. Uh, cause I'm not spending as much time with my friends. And this is another thing with her that I,  I'm like,  And maybe, it's just something that I kept thinking the whole time was, She's  real, socially stunted. Like, these are lessons that I was learning about, Relationships with guys and stuff when I was in my early 20s.

Uh, and I had probably learned most of these by like 23 or 24. And by the time I'm 31, and I think she's 30 now or about to be, I'm not  I'm not having to process, like, sometimes when you're in a relationship, it takes away time from your friends. Or, when you're, like, in new infatuation, obsessed with a guy, like, your energy is all consumed.

, so I think that  she is learning these lessons so much later, but it feels very genuine. And part of this was my theory all along was that Some of these girls on the cast grew up a lot faster than she did, and had a lot of, uh, reality, if you will, hit them, uh, sooner, and that's part of why they had a hard time connecting with her, because she really was processing everything  a lot less quickly. 

Oh, yes, that is such a good point. The,  she, her socialization skills remind me very much of like high school level. Very early like 20s. Yeah, I do think that's why  she bumped heads a lot with the other girls and again because Rachel is a very like literal person like that is just like one thing and I'll just bring it like  just a site like when she was talking about what she's describing to the producer about like Jack's being the number one guy in the group.

Rachel tells that story as a very literal story that like Jax was the number one guy in the group And that was just like a joke like that was one of Jax's like rage moments. No one I actually thought Jax was the number one guy in the group. And also being the number one guy in a group is a fucking ridiculous concept. 

And it's not a thing. But the way that Rachel tells the story, it is very literal. Well Jax was it, but then Sandoval, then it was like Swartz and James. I'm sorry, I didn't get that memo. That that was my thing.  But she's so, so she's so literal about things. And then. When she said, like, you know, I had to, I wasn't prioritizing my friendships, and that is very much, like, I feel like we all, like, go through that, as far as, like, um, especially, like, when we're, like, younger, like, especially if it's, like, your, like, first quote unquote love, and you're, like, infatuated and all of that, and I think Rachel  was going through that now, and other people are, like, way into it.

Um, that's already happened to them. And so,  yeah, it is interesting. Like, I do think we kind of have to take, we can take these things into account when, like, thinking about Rachel. I think it kind of helps clear up a little bit of the fuzziness to some things. Absolutely. Um, this is a good ending point, uh, naturally.

So I'm going to end this and I'm going to send you another one. Okay, sounds good.

So then the So, yeah, so she's kind of send it. Like you said, she has a lot of high school tendencies. She even references a high school friend later. And I thought, and she's 1st to that person  in the present tense, like. This is a friend that I have in high school, is how she says it, and I don't know why that stuck out to me, but I was like,  I just thought that was interesting.

It doesn't mean anything. I know, but it, it just kind of,  I just found it interesting because I had been thinking so much, like, wow, she's, she's kind of at like senior year of high school level as far as this, this socialization and to your point about her being literal, I don't know. I can't think of it off the top of my head, but there was two points that I was like,  just playing, but I was like, her Amelia Bedelia ass, like, she really, like, she truly takes things  exactly as how you present them, which is why  I thought that she was a weird, why I truly believed that, like, when Tom told her that he and Ariana are in this relationship for the show, and This is a show, and you are a character, and then when we're off the show, you are yourself, and we have a different life outside of the show.

That she interpreted that quite literally, I  stand by that. I think that she has a separation between the show and her real life, quote unquote. Oh, yeah. And when Tom told her, like, I'm going to be a producer for season 11, even when she retold that story, it wasn't like, I know he wasn't like that had to be a lie.

She's like, no, he said this. Yeah. And it's just like the,  like, I can't like, like hone enough, like the, the literalness that she has on people's words that I think get her in trouble. Yeah.  So she.  She's talking, so the producers ask her, does it make you feel bad about yourself as you, um, as you sort, as you're sort of on high from these men in your life, uh, even  at the same time.

And she says it makes her feel like she's grown since then. Uh, she was in the mental health facility for several months and she was dedicated to her recovery. And then she kind of goes into something that I thought was very interesting. She says, you know, and then. We get into filming, and James brings in this girl that he met three weeks after me, and then after I met her, I, she basically says, after she saw that Allie would be filming, and she met her, like, that's when the drinking really picked up,  and the producers ask her, so you felt like you spiraled after you met Allie, and figured out that James was moving on so quickly, and I do think that This was one of the moments that I was kind of side eye, side eyeing the I Heart Girls.

Cause I was like, that's not exactly what she said, but it does seem like that's what she was getting at. The spiraled word I thought was a little bit,  a little too leading for my taste. Um, but she said, well, yeah, that was the first of it. And she said she found herself with the castmen, cast members encouraging her to drink.

And she needed, she said she really needed a therapist in her life. And again, something else that I'm like,  Yeah, like, by the time you're 30,  I don't know, girl, like, I would hope that you  had already, I don't know, I just assume that When you're at that point, you've, you've probably been told in your life before, like you need a therapist and you've either decided to go the way of therapy or not, like she kind of, she talks about it, like it was like a revelation.

I'm like, interesting, very interesting. Um, and then she says that  she needed a therapist to talk through, but instead she had Tom and Sandoval was always there for her. Um, and then, uh.  She is funny as hell.  They go. So she says, and he was always there for me and the lady goes, but was he? And she goes, well, not really. 

I was like, girl, you are funny as hell. She has moments where like, she makes me laugh, but the way that she says things, I'm like, well, that was funny, Rachel. Yeah. I mean, she's, she's kind of, she's kind of charming, um, in a goofy sort of way. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, uh, someone asks her what makes you think  as you're.

Like, looking back on it, what was really going on? Like, now you know, you're out of the fog, what was really going on.  And she says, It felt like he was always there for me because we'd FaceTime literally all hours of the day, every single day. He would come over to my apartment and we would hang out on the balcony and vent about our filming experience, which is another You know, put a pin in that.

And we bonded over that unique situation of being on a reality television show and the things that happen behind the scenes that aren't talked about and viewers don't really know about that he understood. Again, that component of the reality show, I think,  plays a big part in her  Ability to compartmentalize or disillusion or disengage or whatever from  the very real relationship that was going on with Tom and Ariana.

I think that the reality show piece  blurred it for her in a way that it may not blur for the rest of the cast, certainly, or for anybody else.  Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And she,  and I get it, like,  I felt like the other cast members.  They, like Lala in particular, she,  I would say  she seems to at least, like, understand the game of reality TV.

So, like, that's why sometimes I get frustrated with her. Cause I'm like,  I, sometimes I'm like, okay, but like, who is like the real Lala in all of this? And with Rachel, I feel like she always was, like, trying to just, like, be. Yeah, like authentic self and that kind of like, she didn't, again, kind of pick up and she even said in this podcast, like, she's not cut out for reality TV,  because she,  she, I don't think understood why people were doing the things that they're doing or saying, and then it's almost like, I could see this group doing this, right?

When the camera's off, it's probably like a click, and they're all fine or talk, you know what I mean? Yeah, they're all talking and fine. And that probably was like, right. Very weird for Rachel to see, and I'm sure, like, again, like, and then her talking to, like, Tom and them connecting on that level, I almost wonder, like, Sandoval being who he was, was like, oh, this is my moment to try to explain things to Rachel.

Oh, yeah. So I think that's another way that they like bonded because she was, she was like, Oh wow, like he's telling me like the, now I understand, or he really cares. I was actually trying to help me in this reality world. And the girls aren't doing that. Yes. I think that Tom Sandoval fancied himself like a reality star maker.

And I think that he took on  In his mind, like, this role of, like, molding, like, the perfect reality star, the perfect, like, underdog storyline. And she was taking that as, like, a confidence booster, and she's now equating this  Thing that he's doing to like mold her she's equating that with  finding her own confidence because she says so often like I found my voice and this was my year to be selfish and she keeps repeating this stuff.

That's like,  well, yeah. And like, definitely you should be like, everyone has the right to be selfish, but. This shi The way that she talks about it seems like something that had to be very literally taught to her rather than something that she  was internalizing and working out. I don't know. Like,  it sounds like something that someone told her, in my opinion, and I'm not putting all the onus on Tom because I know that she's a grown woman, but I also do feel like there's something there where she  was  Kind of  not realizing that they're they are on a show, but they aren't on a scripted show for real for real, you know Yep, 100 percent  and so then  They asked her if she if she thinks that Tom Sandoval's actions were genuine and she goes on to say that she did think it was and that  Of course he would he would vent to her about his relationship and  She said I think I was too patient with it Which is also, just the way that she says things is so  funny.

It's very, it's very honest, like Not, not, I should have realized that he was playing me like a fiddle because he's telling me one thing and I'm seeing another, she's like, I think I was just too patient with him. I was like, yeah, I guess you were.  This is a part where people like kind of called out like this remorse element because she said, like, I really should have put my foot down and be like, okay, you need to decide what you want because you're telling me one thing and your actions are speaking a different story. 

I. Because people like she could have took this time to like say like, you know, um,  I realized like I Just shouldn't have been in this situation at all. This was hurting Ariana. However, I think  again I think this is just a real honest moment Where she was like and she was said like if I could go back I change like a million different things, right?

but in this instant and  this I mean this these things do happen where I mean people cheat and They get caught up and so I could see her like in that moment being like, oh man, like I should have done this I should have told him you need to figure this out Yeah, and and I think again that's like an honest answer and  we see this a lot of time with cheese situations With whoever is in the relationship, it's always this, usually very much like, I'm going to leave, I'm going to get out, and a lot of the times it's the other person just, as Rachel said, being patient, or like waiting, or thinking they will.

That is a very common narrative that we hear, and so her just being like,  Oh, I should have told him, like, Oh, You need to like your word. I thought when she said your words are saying something and your actions are doing like another if she would have said that in the moment. I think that would have been, like,  who knows, like,  Sandoval, you know, would have said something in that moment.

I think she, I think she was just eating every word that he, that he was saying. So again, as far as, like,  people wanting her to be, like, remorseful in that part, again, I think she's just literally telling, like, her thought process and that, like, oh man, if I could go back to that moment, maybe I could have handled it that way.

And that might be the way that people. Want her to handle it, but that's just the way that she's describing it. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, and,  uh, we'll shoot, I'll, I'll get to that when we talk about Graham, which we're going to get to, uh, and then they ask her if she ever just considered telling Ariana, Uh, about everything that was going on.

And she said again, yeah, , she thought about it. Uh, she didn't really know what to say, and then she was like,  the way that she explains the conversation with Ariana, she was like, well, I was just trying to see.  And it's like, no, Raquel, we know. We know that's what you were doing. It was, yeah, we were, we were aghast.

We know that's what you were doing, honey. She was like, well, I was just trying to see like. Cuz it seemed like they weren't having sex and I just wanted to know where she was and I was kind of surprised I'm like, I know but also I do think and this is very unpopular It's not something I could take to read it.

They would kill me and kill me  but I do think that in the  in the same vein of You know, there, I don't think that it was all Tom telling her things. I think that Sheena would say things. I think that Katie and Lala would say things. I think that other cast members, co workers, Tom Schwartz. I think that lots of people were saying things about the state of Ariana and Sandoval's relationship.

Because I think that that was kind of, from everything I've gathered, a known thing that they were in a tough spot. And that they didn't always get along and frankly, I think that Ariana and Tom probably  argued or conducted themselves in ways  in front of Raquel because certainly Ariana did not think that it would matter, you know, a lot of the girls,  even though Ariana was certainly her biggest champion, maybe next to Sheena, a lot of the girls took her,  her meekness for, uh, Not being observant and a lot of times it's totally opposite the person who doesn't speak up a lot Or maybe isn't the most vocal or quick to anger or whatever It's usually  probably has a pretty good vibe of what's going on So I have a feeling there was a couple of times where the real reality between Sandoval and Ariana  Came out, and Raquel, who takes things literally, sees an argument like that and thinks, Oh, well they hate each other and they're not fucking.

Now, it's on her to do the research, it's on her to be honest, it's on her to, you know, but that's just not what she was doing. That's not what she was trying to do in that moment. She was trying to be with Tom. And so, that's what she did, goddamn, you know? Well, and this literally was  a situation like we've almost seen verbatim before where  Tom and Ariana, I think Ariana said they were not like in the best spot in their relationship. 

I think Ariana, the way she handles things, I think she kind of thought like they were in a rough spot, they usually get better, you know, keep working on it. What does Sandoval do? Sandoval has literally said, glorified roommate, he said that verbatim to Kristen before. So him saying that to Rachel does not surprise me because he uses, he has the same M.

O. for everything. It's like, it is truly wild. Yes.  Her, you know, her, him saying that to her. So Sandoval, the route that he goes is he cheats. He finds someone that he feels that he could build up. Even with Ariana, I think he saw her and was like, I could build her up. She can be in this show and I can build her up.

Rachel, she's in her like, this like, Like she said, this non-people pleasing error. Her error Jesus era. She and Taylor, I know God  and, and Tom is, he's even said like, oh, I was, I was so attracted to her 'cause she just seemed to be coming into her own. And I think he's attracted to that. 'cause I think he thinks he can mold it and shape it in a way Yes.

That he, he like wants it. And so again.  And though we, I've seen this film before and I didn't like the ending, this is very much what we've seen with Sandoval and the situation. And so  she, I think when he was telling her these things, She did a check in with Ariana, but honestly, no matter what Ariana said in that moment, Rachel was going to continue what she wanted to do.

Because she was in the thick of it. So, that conversation with Ariana was interesting to me, because no matter what she said, Rachel was still going to do what she's going to do. Even later on when she talks about that phone conversation she had with a friend, when she told them what was happening, she kind of was like, okay, noted.

But she was not in a place. To get out of it. And again, like that, that's the honest truth. Like she was very much like, I'm going to check in, but okay. You're saying you're having sex and you're sexually attracted to him. He's not, I'm going to go with what he's saying right now, because like this situation makes me feel good, even though it was toxic. 

And  I think, sorry. I think that that  conversation with Ariana,  I want to know, I want to know.  Well, it was, it was very out of place and Ariana said, Oh, well, I was just waiting for someone to ask me and I was like, really,  why didn't you just say something then? Like, why didn't you, I don't know, that would have been a good time in my opinion for her to have like a sit down, you know, hash it out about the Tom's with like Katie or something.

So it just, it was all very, I mean, that's all very odd. I'm not blaming Ariana just to be very, very clear. Um, I'm just saying that I, I thought it was so odd that maybe no, maybe everyone, maybe no one thought to ask her that because everyone just assumed that they were, you know, and so no one thought to ask her something like that.

And I think,  you know, it made for some really wild ass television, um,

So then, and I'm just going to kind of get through all of this kind of stuff because I really want to get to Graham and I really want to get to the Tom story. Um, but they asked her if she felt like she was watching herself, uh, or was it an, was she watching, was she watching what she knew to be herself or was it an out of body experience?

And she says, yeah, no, it was basically like watching the worst version of herself. Uh, which was a very beautifully worded way to say that, I thought. Um, she talks about how she was,  she, and this is, she said this, she said this time and time again. Uh, she was a rule follower, she was a good girl, and this was like her bad era.

And I just have to say, and I wrote it in my notes, like, the eras thing, I'm like,  I understand that it's like a very palatable, easy way to like, compartmentalize and put like, Decisions that we make into times in our lives, but  yeah, we just can't listen to her say that it was our era. She has all these eras.

I'm like, girl, you fucked Tom Sandoval. It's not an era. We want to like glorify. Okay.  Again, very high school. Very high school. And it is very like. I'm not, you know, I, I think, you know, I hate Taylor Swift, so it's maybe that's why I'm so triggered, but  like, it is kind of Taylor Swift kind of caters to this like romanticized high school bullshit thing.

And that's kind of how Rachel  lives or talks or that's, you know, and, you know, I love Rachel, but  some of this is a little too, a little too fantasy for me. Yeah, it's And guys, just so you know, I am still reading, uh, Lindsay's recaps to get through this. So if you guys want to read along, you can on Instagram and Reddit, which we will put at the end of this episode.

Uh, so then  one of the ladies asks, was James your first unhealthy relationship?  And I think that James was her first boyfriend, essentially. Uh, she said she met James when she was 21,  which is  like, I just.  If James was your boyfriend  for that many years at that time in your life, you just, you know, she's got to have something  to work on or to heal.

And think about as we, we've talking about like her socialization. So she was 21 then. So imagine what, so we saw this.  Behavior with like Sandoval when she was 28. So 21 social level, Rachel was very much like a wide eyed. There's nothing there because she I think she was just consuming everything that was around her.

And then for James Kennedy to be your first relationship.  I'm sorry, that's gonna fuck you up. Because And she even said previously, like the rule follower, the, the people pleasing with James and like, I understand that, like, I've been like the relations before where you're like, okay, I need to do this so the other person doesn't react.

That's exhausting and that takes a toll on you. And so for her to like, you know, be in that relationship, and then this is a part where I kinda wish.  The producers, or whoever, the iHeartLadies would ask more questions about her and James relationship, but  Maybe they'll get there, and also I know this is a very, very sensitive subject, so I'm not going to, um, push, I don't know where Rachel is as far as, like, her reflection on her and James relationship, because we've talked about this, I think, in the first episode that I came on with you, like, the darkness with James Kennedy.

Yeah, it's there. It's there. It's palatable.  Um, I, and, but they do this thing too that I found so annoying.  Um, they're like, well, also pageants though, right? And she's like, yeah, pageants. I'm like, for the zeitgeist to stop, uh, giving a fuck about pageants. Like, I feel like we're also putting too much of her behavior, not to say that some of it, or even maybe a lot of it, doesn't have to do with pageants, but like, I knew a lot of girls that were pageant girls, and like,  They're fine.

There's not like some sort of major social issue or character flaw or one of them is a really successful stand up comedian, I think for the most part, it just like  kind of  helps you  with like composure and now she does answer. Almost every single question she's asked back, like, Thank you for asking. She says, haha, that's a good question.

She restates it. She restates it, she comments on the question, she compliments the question, Which I do think, some of that's reality television, cause you have to, You have to say everything, you know, as a statement, but, uh, I think some of that also is, is pageant. But,  and I don't know why I'm going on this tangent.

It just does really bother me. Cause I don't like, and I certainly was not in pageants, so I don't know where this is coming from, but I just feel like a lot of people are like, instead of just saying like, yeah, man, sometimes women cheat. Sometimes women don't give a fuck about the girlfriend, even if that's a friend and, uh, they fuck the guy.

Like Instead of saying that, I, a lot of people will be like, Well, and those pageants, they really fucked her up. I'm like, I,  I just,  I don't know, like, Maybe she had some sort of atypical experience, or  I don't think that pageants are great, But, I don't think she, she wasn't like a, Like a toddlers in tiara, she was like a, Middle to upper teen.

Pageant girl, I think, or preteen. Yeah, and that part makes me upset too because, again,  Rachel very much was talking about, like, the unhealthiness of her and James relationship and where she was at. And then they quickly turn it to pageants. I'm like, well, wait, that was very leading because Rachel, I don't think, would have brought up pageants in that moment.

So why are you wanting to, I don't know, again, I'm like, were they trying to, like,  Stare this direction where they don't talk about James too much, or was this just like they're trying to like again like see those are the parts when they do that shit I'm like see you're taking that part to me or taking away the whole the accountability aspect you're trying to add excuses.

Like, I don't think Rachel would have brought up that part but like you said it is very interesting Rachel will literally.  Answer anything that you ask her. So they asked her that, so then she's like, excuse me, oh yeah, pageants, like, let me talk about this. Which I don't think that was on her radar, so, that's why part of me, I'd be so interested,  truly, honestly, Rachel going rogue would, for me, would be her actually being solo on this podcast.

Because she very much,  She can be leaded with her questions in so many way where I'm like, is that actually what you think,  or are you just like answering in a way that you've been trained to do? And I think that is a very pageant way that she's grew, that she grew up in. But yeah, that part actually did make me like, mag.

So it's just like, okay, I feel like we get somewhere. And then they ask a question where I'm just like, I didn't want it to go in that direction yet. This is bullshit and I don't care. I don't care. I don't care.  Um, uh, then she talks about her comfort zone and how having, and also I will say that if she's not the most eloquent, you know, speaker, whatever this having a podcast is going to help her in some way.

So I don't think that the podcast is all bad. Uh, I just wanted to, cause they kind of talk about this and she talks about how she's proud of herself for having a podcast. Um, much like if you have a stutter, like you got to work through that. And. Yeah. You know, then eventually, like, if you can  be a public speaker or a singer or something like that, it, it helps. 

Um, they ask her if she's been insecure her whole life. She's like, yes. And she details all the ways that she's felt insecure. I think that that is, that was good to think about too, when you think about Sandoval playing into it. Because. When she talks about how she was in this fantasy again, it's kind of like high school imagery, like the really hot, popular, most liked number one guy in the group,  uh, all of a sudden he likes you, but you're like, you're the ugly duckling.

And that's how she perceived herself. That's how she grew up. You know, thinking, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what  trickery happened with James. I don't know, like, what kind of bullshit went down there, but I very much feel like  she was insecure. And I, I also want to be careful, I just need to say this, Lindsay, because, uh, I don't want to be played the fool, you know?

Like,

there may very well be an aspect to her personality. There may be a little bit of Monica in all of us, okay? Like, some of this might be a little played up. She may have overcome some of this, like, I was an awkward, you know, nerdy girl. And all of that and she's kind of like leaning into it for storytelling or something like that's possible.

I don't think that she's like evil maniacal. Um, but I, I just think,  I think that for the most part, what we're getting on this podcast is. Who she is, you know,  oh, yeah, and I,  I don't live in a world like with reality TV people like there. I have like thoughts and opinions, but there's also like, I very much understand that these people could have, it could all be for show or everything that Rachel.

Could say on this podcast could like be not the truth, right? Like, I understand there are aspects of that out there with all the cast members, even some that I like, that I really like, like, I know there's always aspects, I don't know these people I'm just watching and listening. So like, so like totally understand that aspect.

And I,  like I said earlier, I'd like to think when listening to this podcast with Rachel, I do think we got some like true. Authentic stuff when she wasn't being like leading, like with questions and when, you know, we had those like real moments. So I think, yeah, I totally get what you're saying with that. 

Yeah. Then they ask a question that I thought was very poignant, uh, cause it was kind of what I was thinking and they put it very well.

They said, has anyone ever told you you're very guarded? Like are you aware of this? Were you always like this? Were you like this on the show?  And she's like, oh yeah, no, I hear it all the time. She was like, uh, unfortunately I have to have all these walls up. Um, it's hard for me to let people in and she said it sucks because she was starting to get to a point before the scandal where that wasn't going to be the case, like she was starting to let her walls down.

But I think that  there's something to be said, like, at the point that they asked that question, what's whatever she was saying, uh, which I see here, but the way that she was saying it. It was like, she wasn't getting to the root or whatever. She wasn't fully answering the question. She wasn't fully, she wasn't fully vulnerable.

And I think that this guarded thing isn't just because of Sandoval. I think that she's been, I think that this is how she's been for some time. And again, I guess we could say pageants have maybe something to do with that, um,  or her experiences. I think that if James was truly her first boyfriend, um, I think that she probably, Had no choice but to have to keep some things to herself and, um, interpret and reword and present and, uh, All of those kind of things that you do when you're with someone who is  a  garbage human. 

Well, and like you said before, like the way that she answered, like the, the first, that question leading up to her being asked about being guarded, she literally said like, when she was only like six or seven. So imagine like that could be anywhere from like kindergarten, like first grade and. She felt like not good in her own skin.

That is a loaded thing for a kindergartner, first grader to feel. So like her just like, just kind of blatantly saying that and then nothing really else that is very guarded. Cause I know with me, like with like, I. I still have, like, I have my walls up with people, but I am more, like, very open about stuff that I've been through.

So, like, for me, if I would answer that question, I would, like, elaborate more on, like, why I felt that way. But Rachel was just like, I was six or seven, and I did not feel good in my skin. And I was, when I heard that part, I was like, I would like to know more about that because I'm wondering I'm I can think maybe like she was adopted Um, there are other things, you know And the way that she mom sometimes like particularly when she was like my mom nag I didn't want to be like my mom when she said that I was like, oh Like there's just so much more of a dynamic there that i'm interested in So I it's interesting that they picked up on like Her guard, because I think we do very much like see that with her.

And I think she had to have a lot of that with, you know, James Kennedy, like you were saying,  Hey, you cut out, what was the last sentence that you said? I'm sorry. Oh, I was just talking about like her, like being guarded and how she had to be a scream that way.

James Kennedy.  Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, God. Now it's frozen. Okay. There you are. Okay.  Okay. Yeah. Okay. Actually, we will end this one because bad vibes. It's just not working right now. So we're going to end this one and I'm going to send you a new link. Okay.

So after they talk about being guarded, they  kind of pivot a little bit. And, uh, ask her what people are saying, since she's starting to quote, reenter the world, they say that they had just taken her to jingle ball. And, you know, we have been seeing her kind of out on the town a little bit and  going out to events and things like that.

And she says that people that recognize her are usually happy to see her. And there was a nice lady in Chicago and she said,  She had a weird choice of words. She was like, I really condone what you're doing. And I thought condone was an odd way to say that. I was like, what do you mean condone? But she meant like getting her shit together and going and getting help, which is fine.

Um, and then they ask, has anything ever happened that was negative?  And this prompted her to tell this story about David Portnoy's.  Broke ass like broke busted piece of shit ass who is gross. He is gross. Apparently there, well, I'm apparently like I wasn't eating it all up in real time. So Rachel was in Chicago and so was David Portnoy and there were rumors, um, that they were dating.

There was a rumor that was spread. Sounds like maybe spread or further perpetuated by a friend of hers from high school on TikTok  David, when he was asked about this, he said that, uh, I can confirm I've never met that trash bag in my life and it's wild insinu it's wild insulting to even be mentioned in the same sentence as her. 

I'm like, do you know who the hell they're talking about? It was just such a and I remember, like, that was like one of the only times that in the Reddit where it was like a positive Rachel because everyone was like, bro,  a little much.  And so she says  Um, you know, I've learned a lot about project. First of all, she laughs and she goes, yeah, I've learned a lot about projection and I think he doesn't know me at all.

So whatever story he's made up in his mind, I don't really care. Um, and I know that there's a lot of information, misinformation about me and that's why he's so Polaroid Polaroids polarized. And, uh, she said, uh, he's quick to judge her, which is his style because he's a shock jock. So this is something that he does.

And, uh,  The ladies were like, yeah, you're right. That is what he does. And she's absolutely right. He just needs so much attention.  And they asked her if she's able to handle  negativity better now than she was, uh, before she, before last year. And she says, absolutely. She's developed thick skin.  And they, then they get into weird mode and they're like, well, what would you say to him?

No, like right now, like if he was sitting here, like right now in the room, what would you say to him? And Rachel was like, I wouldn't be in a room with him.  Yeah, I love that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't put myself in a situation with him. Again, the literal, the literal thing. Um, and then she goes, I'm hesitant to say this because I don't want to start drama.

And then she tells us about this friend of hers from high school who  started the rumor and then, or, or perpetuated it on TikTok. And she was like, you know, you could have just texted me and asked me if I was dating the guy. And, uh, I thought that was interesting that that made such an impact on her.

Because there were so many people, like, I'm pretty sure Betches had it as, like, one of their headline stories.  So, but it makes sense. She knew the girl. Um.  They ask if she's filled that.  Go ahead. Go ahead.  Oh, just that story. It just like took off like rapid fire and it literally started from like behind the blinds, which we both love that podcast, but they, someone like wrote it into them that they just happened to be in the same small town, which is kind of odd, but they weren't in the same location.

He was at a pizza place. She was at a coffee shop. And then it turned into. They were spotted together, there was this, there was that, and I was just like, the way, and again, like, talking about his nastiness, just a few months ago, he talked about how Rachel, he was like, murder her, when they brought up the whole Graham situation, so like, he used, yeah, he literally said those words.

I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah, and so like, this is not someone that, Um,  he, you know, the way that he taught, again, the language that he used to describe her, when I heard this rumor, I was like, yeah, this isn't, this isn't, like, you,  just because him and his girlfriend broke up doesn't mean that, like, Rachel, like, swooped in, like, I don't think that's, like, this whole, like, Character arc that she's just now going to live in she's after everybody's man.

If like no one's safe, no one is safe with Rachel on the loose. Oh my God. I should have been called Rachel on the loose.

That is really funny. Oh my God.  Oh my God. Um, okay. So. They ask her if she feels betrayed by a lot of people. She says she does. They ask her if she feels that she deserves to be betrayed and she says she does not feel like she deserves to be betrayed, um, and she shouldn't. No one, you know, she's  pretty aware that like she doesn't deserve to be treated any type of way.

She also says she knows she's not a trash bag as David Portnoy put it. So I like that she uses that language about herself because she's, you know, she may have made it. Bad decision, a trash decision. That's not, or been in a trash situation that she did not take the necessary steps to get out of, but she's not trash bag person. 

Well, no people, people can be  in that moment. And she even said like, it's hard because she knows she betrayed people. But so she even kind of, I feel like she kind of hinted, like it kind of seemed like hinted as far as I guess this karma, but if you think about like.  Because I remember when, like, the whole, like, her and Sheena thing went down, there were, like, Rachel's friends were, like, listening to Rachel and then coming to the other group and telling her, telling them what she was saying.

And so, like, that in itself, like, anyone who's going through a really tough moment, and even if you do a shitty thing, even Sandoval, when you're doing, like, you've done a really shitty thing, you do need some people in your life to, like, hold you up because otherwise you're going to just, like, lose it. So, that has to be hard to, in that moment, Even though she did a really, like, fucked up thing and betrayed a lot of people, to have a feeling that you can't say anything without it being out there, like, that is a sense of betrayal.

And, like, like she said, she's kind of had to figure out, like, who her friends are and, like, who, who during that time didn't say anything. Because there were a couple people that, like, didn't, you know what I mean, say anything. Right.  So, the next few questions that they ask her are all kind of in the same vein.

Uh, Let me see, where'd it go?  Uh,  they ask her  if she plans on, I'm so sorry, I keep,

I don't know what happened to it. Basically, they ask her if she's going to watch season 11 and is there anybody from the cast that she still talks to and she's like, there's a couple of people, um, that I'm kind of cool with, but I don't really, you know, I said until they're out of that world of the show, I'm, you know, can't be close with them, which I think is very smart.

And then they ask her if she's nervous about season 11 coming up, and she kind of starts to ramble, and then she says, you know, and then Graham, and then they ask her, how do you feel about seeing your dog this season, and then we essentially get The Graham story. Now, I am going to speed run this story with the caveat that this is exactly what the fuck I said was going on from the beginning, and I don't know why it took y'all listening to her say it, I don't know why, not you obviously, not you Lindsay, none of my listeners, because my listeners are gray, but all of the other people that were just so quick to be like, I'm  Taking James Kennedy's word for something.

It's so whacked out. It doesn't make any sense. So this is what she says.  She and James got a dog together, they were raising him together, he was already kind of behaviorally challenged, he already had some issues, when he also had an issue with being very possessive, so like if he had a ball, if he had a toy, if he had something, and you, you know, got anywhere near it, much less try to take it from him, he would get extremely aggressive, and then, that was not helped by,  would, get angry. 

I'm now paraphrasing. James would go into these fits of absolute rage, or come home drunk and do this ridiculous shit and he would scare the dog, or he would play too rough with the dog, or he would encourage the dog to do stupid shit, and it fucks the dog up in the head, understandably, and then,  you know, the truth of the matter is, James is not a good dog owner, and  he would do things like he would kick him off the couch, just stuff that's not good for a dog owner. Right. And  I believe that she had tried to get a couple of different training or behavior, uh, treatment things going, and it just wasn't working out. And then, it comes up to the time that they're kind of split up ish, and they're working with the dog, they're trying to figure out what's going to happen with the dog, and then she goes into treatment, and the dog goes with her parents, because she doesn't want the dog with James, understandably so.

Then the dog, and we saw the picture about bites her mom's finger off, and I'm not  being, I'm kind of exaggerating, except not really, we saw the picture that was a gnarly bite, okay?  And mom is basically like, hey, you either come home and get this dog, or dog's gotta go. And Rachel was like, well,  guess you guys gotta find a new home for the dog.

And so they do that. She says that the dog Gets re homed and is brought back to the shelter or whatever, not a kill shelter, the shelter that the dog was placed in to find for re homing. Uh, within what, like three days, she says? Three days, yeah. Three days because it bit the owner or the owner's kid or something like that.

And so,  then they try to re home him again and, uh, this is where I'm not super sure exactly what happens. Uh, but they were trying to find a bunch of different foster families. So I had the really difficult decision to either leave the Meadows and take care of my dog or extend my stay. So my family found a breed specific golden doodle rescue in Southern California.

My dad drove him over there and my mom had the trainer's phone number and they promised to keep the rescue adoption situation under wraps because I'm a public figure. My mom made it very clear. She didn't say who I was, but she said that she had. But in the media a lot lately, and she wanted to have it confidential.

And then, and then, so that owner is the one that returned the dog in , three days because of a bite. And then they needed more money for a new trainer because the trainer that was working with him stopped working with him. And so they scanned his microchip. They saw that it was connected to Lisa Vanderpump and Vanderpump dogs.

I called up Lisa Vanderpump.  Vanderpump goes, I'll, um, cracker. And so she adopts him. And doesn't tell Raquel that she got Graham back. And, um,  then, uh, the lady asks, Well, how did you find out that he was with Vanderpump?  And she said that she was a week out of the 90 day facility. And she saw on Social media, someone had taken a cast, a picture of the cast in Lake Tahoe, and they saw that Graham was with James, and that's how she found out that James, that Graham was with James, and this, this part was a little hard to follow, um, because I think this is where Rachel's trying to put it into like show terms, but also trying to explain like the logistics of what happened.

Essentially,  Lisa  was planning on reuniting, I guess.  Raquel with Graham on this Lake Tahoe trip because at the time Raquel was still maybe gonna go back to the show and her first episode would be Lake Tahoe. So from what Rachel gathered this would have been like a reuniting episode and she was like  Not cool with it.

And she said I don't want him to go to James. So whether or not Graham is This is what I'm not totally sure of if Jan if Graham is actually really living with James or Graham is really living with Lisa Vanderpump I'm unclear because it still kind of seems like  the way that she ended up wording it  Was that Lisa Vanderpump, the person, adopted Graham, officially.

, but either way, because I guess this is how it goes, I'm going to take her word for it. She surrendered all of her rights to Graham, so she didn't have any fucking say over who ends up with him anyway. , and then she emphasizes that James is not someone who should have a dog. She said that she's trying to, , be chill and , she didn't say protect, but she's trying to protect the situation.

She doesn't want to say too much, but James can't have a dog. And I am inclined to believe her.  And then, Lisa tries to lure her with, , she says, why don't you bring me some flowers to apologize?  Hairy Lisa Vanderpump and , Then that's basically it. Rachel says i'm not going for that  Have a nice life Yeah, that and I,  so I have so many questions because it's like, did, okay, if this rescue if money was an issue, why wouldn't,  because it sounds like they were maybe still having contact with Rachel's mom.

So it's like, I wonder like why they wouldn't maybe reach out to them first because like they have money from my undersea army like they're pretty well off. So it's interesting that they. They didn't reach out to them first and then they scan Graham's chip and they see that it's Lisa, so they call her.

I would've loved to hear that conversation. Totally. And then Ra Lisa said that she would adopt him and try to rehome. If she couldn't rehome him, then he would live off in her beautiful ranch. And Rachel was like, what? Ranch?  . And so, and then, and I wonder, because this is where I kind of got confused, because I took it, I wasn't sure if Rachel would have came back.

Would she have bombarded, like, was Lisa going to give her Grimm back, or was she going to give Grimm to James in front of her? Like, I wasn't sure, like, what direct, like, that, that confused me. So then, and then,  Um, dog situations get people very, um, hyped and very like, yeah, it's, um, it is, ooh, it is a situation that makes me nervous to talk about because while I love dogs, I also can have empathy for people in these situations.

And I feel like Rachel did try to take the steps that she could, and they even, they recommended for Graham to be put down and she said no.  And then, so, you,  you want to come for Rachel, but like, let's not,  let's note that she texts Lisa her concerns, and Lisa still gave the dog to James. So someone who is an animal lover, Lisa Vanderpump,  You still gave the dog to, to James and  from what we see in social media, does hippie now seem to be doing well  from what we, from what James posts?

Yeah, sure. Um, but also from what Rachel used to post about Graham, I never, I never thought, yeah, I never thought any, I, I never thought of about him being a biter or like the finger, the chunk of finger that was gone. And so,  again, she tells you her, her concerns and you still give them to James? Like, that is weird and it will be very interesting to see how, because like Rachel says, I already know the storyline.

They were going to say that I gave him, I put him in a kill shelter and they called Lisa. And if that is the storyline that they go with, that will be very interesting because I don't, that, like, that was not the case from my understanding. Like, it was not a kill shelter.  And if you, if you, if you as a dog owner make the decision  to put a dog in a kill shelter, why, because it would, would have been our parents that did it regardless, right?

So it's not. Yeah, that's true. Michelle Levis. Why would they  then be like. Oh, let's call, let's just see if they have, if this dog just happens to have another owner, like that doesn't make sense. They would have just put the dog down. They would have put the dog down. Isn't that what their purpose is? Or they would have, if someone came in the next day and was like, I want the dog, maybe they would have given the dog to them, but like they wouldn't be searching for another owner.

This is what I think. And um,  I'm just going to be totally honest.  If this was my mom, because I know my mother, and everyone's situation is different, okay, so this is not your parents, and that's tight, this is my mom, if I left my animal with her, , and whether that's because I go abroad, or I'm  in the hospital, or whatever, she,  if my animal bit her the way that Graham bit Raquel's mom, um, My mom,   she would be like, this dog's getting the fuck out of my house.

Sometimes Parents do things that  you don't want them to do, you know?

If my mom was a bit like that, like  My cat, Sheena, Sheena Marie, she has a bit of a behavior problem, and she scratched my mom last week. Burst of blood vessel, and my mom's hands swell up, because she has arthritis, she's 80. So, she was like, you can't bring your cat here for like a couple of weeks, and she knows that I don't move without the cat.

So, I can only imagine if Sheena had pulled that stunt, if I was out of town, Sheena would be  On the Vanderpump Ranch right now, she know would not be  like with my mom. And so I'm just saying like,  if mom is like thinking I don't know how long my daughter's gonna be gone. I'm not taking, this is not my dog.

This is not my dog, not my problem. Gotta go. Yeah. Sorry babe. Gotta go. Your priority is your mental and emotional health.  The dog's just got to go and they wouldn't have given it to James. That was one thing that kept coming up and I, and I told y'all so, of course, they're not going to give the dog to James.

They fucking hate James and James is an abusive piece of shit allegedly. So no, they're not going to give the dog to James. Okay. And I don't like, I don't, you know, it's all like, believe women and like, Queen Ariana and Katy is the master and all of this mother bullshit. But then when you have a girl sitting here saying like,  this man would get belligerently drunk and scare the shit out of my dog and treat him rough and have him bite and, and just act abhorrently to the point where I don't want to say it.

Oh, well, it's, it's the girl that slept with some guy. So that's. I can't stand that.  She's trying to tell y'all he's shit. He's trash. Hello?  Well, and I even saw some comments that were like, why didn't, like, Rachel, in that situation when Jayme was doing that stuff, like, I would have just, like, left right then and there.

That is so easy to say. I don't, like, some people, I'm like, I, I wish I had your life. Because if you're not in a situation like that, like,  First of all, like, that's awesome that you've never experienced like that, but if  You know, if you if Rachel and James like she would see that and obviously she was struggling like with how he was treating her.

Right. Yeah. And so,  and again, she said, like, she felt like she was nagging him and she didn't want to do that. So then she would try to express herself. And I'm, I'm sure James, you know, really took kindly to her expressing herself.  And so  yeah, it's very easy to just say like, Oh, if that was me and he did that to my dog, I would just up and leave.

I think there was a lot. I think you have to think more like about the whole the whole picture and like that components of that relationship. It was toxic all around. So like you have James allegedly abusing a dog. And allegedly abusing his girlfriend like they all were in like this nasty cycle. So again, like it's, it's interesting how  they come so hard for Rachel in this situation and I felt like over a dog.

Well over the dog and also she's pinpointing behaviors that James did to this dog, right? But what do you turn it into? Well, why didn't you do anything? Well, I'm sorry I'm focusing on the motherfucker that did that to the dog and then also did it to Rachel So allegedly so they're both in that situation and your thought is Why didn't you do anything?

Like what like there there was This was like this, the cycle of alleged abuse that we're seeing, and it's just weird that that's somehow people's first thought, because that was not my first thought. My, like, hearing, like, the behaviors that  James would do to Graham, I'm like, well, That makes sense. If you already had a dog that was maybe naturally, maybe a little aggressive at first or had some tendencies and then James reinforces them because they got him when he was a puppy.

So like, that's like the very like important stage of a dog's life to like learn these like, you know, behaviors and for people to just like, again, the focus.  The focus is all like, well, why didn't you do anything? She, she, she did. She did try in that situation. So I don't know, like what more you wanted from her.

Well, people just don't want to believe her. They don't want to believe her. But my thing is,  regardless, you saw her mom's finger, her mom didn't make that up. So you're on a level of mom made up the finger picture, then there's no talking to you. That would be wild. That would be wild. But if you. Understand that that dog gave her mom that injury then  and again, it's like, well, why would you, they'll say, oh, well, why was she provoking the dog?

Like, bro, to get that injury out of a dog that is provoked. Like, she would have had to literally put her finger in the dog's mouth and clamp it down herself, like, and then sli You know, like, that is not something from just, like, provoking a dog. That is  a severe injury, . It's so weird that you guys are defending a guy It's so weird. Like  what Rachel did was Extremely humane in my opinion what their parents did they took it and they did what they have to do Sometimes you're not equipped to handle the behaviors of a dog because they're not a fucking human.

They can't emote The way they can't express, they can't tell you what's wrong. So you have to have a really specialized person who works intimately with animal behavior to correct it.  She said they, it was, it, they attempted to foster a few times and didn't work out. So, this dog was putting people in danger. 

 He has to go live on a ranch, and that's fine, Villa Rosa is perfect for that, I guess that's the ranch that she's referring to, I  don't know, but like,  even the most rich people, that's like a time, that's a time commitment, that's like a, that's a lot to ask of someone who's in a  mental hospital, thank you very much. 

 Well, and then guess what? We see articles and it is different,  what do we hear when  Um, we, we read about a dog attack in the news.

What comments do I see? Why didn't the parent, how could you let that happen? Right. Oh, I'm re, oh, oh, these, this says that this dog has been aggressive all this long. Why didn't you do anything? How can you let this happen? Exactly. But in the same sense, if that person then does try to do the right steps,  then it's still not right.

So I can't live in this world where like. And coming from, you know,  I love dogs, but also  I don't, it's not a black or white situation. There are things that happen in people's lives and like every situation is different. So you can't, I don't know,  I guess,  I guess the part in a lot of people's mind, like the Rachel should have just came home even though she wasn't ready and just taking care of the dog.

And that was that.  That's nuts. Like I, yeah, and that wasn't,  that didn't align to like what was happening in her life and I don't think that's. That's a bad thing when again, like all the other steps that they tried, because guess what? A lot of people too, when someone tells them like, you need to put the dog down, some people do do that.

, so like, yeah, no, people are either going to just, they're just going to say that she's lying. If they don't, you know, if they don't like the answer, they're going to believe James Kennedy, which I will never literally ever do.

And, um, that's on that. So y'all  the dog. Let it the fuck go. It's not your dog. It's not my dog. The dog's fine.  Hopefully, Gram is undergoing some Maybe Al I don't know what Allie does with her free time. Maybe she ha I genuinely don't know what she does other than than the cards.

So, maybe she has lots and lots of time to sit down and deal with the dog and get all the behavior and hopefully hopefully he's okay and hopefully James is in a state where he's not.  Terrorizing the dog or making the dog's anxiety so  friggin high that he's continuing to act out. I hope not. I hope not. 



All right. Now we got a pivot from the dog conversation before I fly off the handle. Um,  so then they kind of end the podcast with this conversation that we hinted out about, that we hinted about at the beginning, uh, the Tom Sandoval and Raquel.  Love origin story and they started off by playing this clip from two keys in a pod where? 

Tom is asked if he still loves Rachel and they say can we play this clip and Rachel's like, yeah, let's roll it  And  so they ask Tom if he misses Rachel. He says yes, we were best friends. I was fully in love with her  He goes  This is not like some hot girl. Like I was a model for like 15 years. Like, I'm just like a hot girl.

Like, come on. I was like, dude,  relax.  And then, um, so basically he's just saying he was in love with her for real. But just for the record, she made the first move. And so they're like, what do you think about that? And she's like, wow, very humble. And then she was like. Um, she zoned out because, um, hearing his voice triggers her, which is something that she recently learned that like, it literally makes her vomit.

And I was like, holy shit, I have been there with a guy. I have had it. I have had an experience with a guy where I got literally physically ill hearing his voice. And that is a terrible place to be. And I feel so bad for her. I hate that for her. Um,  so. They asked if it brought up any feelings for her, and she said  that part of her wants to believe in the fantasy that she was wrapped up in, uh, with him, and then part of her has to understand that that was not, that is not the truth, and that she wants to, she remembers, like, wanting to be with the, the Tom that was without Ariana.

And her kind of processing that that is not, that was not ever going to be a real thing for her. Um,  and then they ask her if it's, uh, vindicating that he's, that he's publicly, like, declaring his love. And she's like, yeah, um, but he's still trying to make himself the, the victim role. Um, and he really flipped on me and threw me under the bus and said that, you know, I made the first move and that's not the story.

And they were like, uh,  Well, what's the story? And she's like, Uh, well, I guess I could tell you. And they're like, Oh, we have the time. We have the time.  And she tells this story. And when I tell you, I, if I was a, if I was a visual artist, like if I could paint or draw or something, I would be able to literally animate this.

Like I have, I know exactly how this, I see every frame of it in my head.  Every frame of it, and I'm not going to tell the entire story again. If you guys want to hear that, you can go listen to Rachel goes rogue. There's a plug, Rachel. You're, you're welcome. Um,  but essentially, um,  they were, well, apparently they weren't best friends according to her, but they were close.

And that she was starting to have a certain attraction to him. And then  they were at his house, or they were at the Abbey getting a drink.  And he asked her after that girls night Vegas trip, and then they, they crashed boys night. And then, um, they went to the Abbey to get a drink and, uh, they were kind of hanging out, just sitting in the car and talking.

And then he says, well, do you want to  come to the house? Yeah. Come in for the nightcap.  They get to the house, they can't get in the house. Can't get in the house, Ariana's in the house, asleep. This is when the producers gasped. And it was kind of like,  cause we know what's coming, and so just hearing it be like, you guys are like, probably wasted, like trying to get like, into the house, and it's like, oh, no, cause she's upstairs asleep, and so then you guys go around the back, and talk about getting in the hot tub.

And she kind of skirts around it here. I think that what she, and it kind of like, she was embarrassed. I think that what happened was she was like, I'll get in the hot tub, even if I don't have a bathing suit. And she kind of like just took off her clothes and got in the hot tub, which I think is fine. Um, I feel like you should feel comfortable.

I mean, I know that there was like sexual tension. I feel like you should always feel comfortable enough to take off whatever around a guy and there shouldn't be any kind of weirdness about it, but whatever. Um, And, so, because they were talking about, there was a fire pit, they were talking about the fire pit, then they get in the hot tub, and, uh, she, she also makes a point, did you find this odd to talk about the towels? 

Well, she just like, so specific, but like, just like, we didn't know what to do at all.  All the details, but yeah, I was just like, okay, so the towel, like, but talk about like you said, like visualizing. I was like, okay, so the towels, they probably have like a little side thing on their house where they put their towels.

Okay. I can picture that. And it's just like, and also like, it would be Rachel to be in this like very heated tension moment. And she was like, do you have towels? Yeah. And he's just like, he's like, yeah, girl, like we got towels. We have towels, girl. Um, and so, uh, And so then she takes off her clothes, and she goes in the, not all of her clothes, I think she said she left a corset top on, she takes off her jeans, she gets in the hot tub, and she describes this moment, and I'm kind of getting like,  I've had moments like this in my life, like very like,  you're not supposed to be doing this,  and it just happens, like, and the way that she tells it just, Um,  she was playing music, he asked her to turn down the music, and he came over and he looked at her a certain kind of way, and then he grabbed her kind of, and he spun her around and kissed her.

And uh, she was like, it was very fairy tale, very like, romantic. And she didn't know how to feel, and then from, from what she says, I imagine him having a,  uh, performative existential crisis. So he's like, pretending like he's just soooo caught up in his feelings, and how did I get myself here, and I'm just having all these feelings Raquel, and I've had feelings for you forever, and I just don't know how to handle it, and Ariana's upstairs, and I just, we're not getting along, and I mean,  I can imagine he asked her to turn down the music and what was my thinking because Arianna's upstairs.

I don't want to hear her. I don't want her to hear this. So this whole like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe he had an agenda. And I'm not saying Rachel did not have an agenda as well. Cause I think she was also kind of like, Ooh, where's this going to, I think hers was more like Uber. It's just maybe going to go into the flirtatiousness and he had a Plan.

Yes. He was like, this is all like, and then the whole like turn down the music, lifting her up and spinning. Yes, this guy is a showman. Like my goodness, like he doesn't need to be in lifetime movies. Just watch him. Like do, because this is like his true acting. Yeah. This is his true acting. So like, yeah, just wild 

And so then she's like, it was kind of awkward because he was, you know, now he was having his.  Thing. He was going through his thing and she's like, well, I'm gonna go. And he's like, no, please don't go. We need to talk. And she's like, well, I'm not gonna sit here and talk. And so they go in the car and from everything we can deduce, uh, they go in the car and I'm sure, and I.

Also described this moment in detail in my own mind, and I promise it happened this way. They get in the car, they start talking, it's like, I've been, I've been this girl, I, unfortunately, I've been this very girl. And you're in the car, and it's like, I just,  I, I've had these feelings for you forever. And I don't know, like, where it's gonna go, but,  and then they kiss, and now they're fucking.

Now they're fucking, she's on top of him, I promise you that's what's happening. I promise. Yeah. And, um, but that's not exactly what she says. That's me. That's me embellishing a little bit. Um, the I heart lady says, uh, so what happened? You went to the car and she was like, yeah, she was like, did you hook up?

And she was like, yeah, it's really bad. She Rachel's like, this is really, it's not good. And they're like, wow. Um, so what did you, I mean, you've kind of talked about it a little bit. Oh, but  before I, before I ask you, I do want to say.  She's saying it was all very bad, but she said, I think he's just trying to plan his narrative, and it's very blurry, like, who made the first move, but does it matter who made the first move, because, and she's right, it doesn't matter who made the first move, you both got into it, you both did it, it sounds like you were both participating, like, This, like, first move bullshit from Sandoval is so corny, it's so stupid and annoying. 

He's just trying to, again, put the blame, like, talk about not taking accountability, putting the blame on everyone else, like Rachel literally said, like,  I told you the story you can interpret as you will, but also like who Matt, like we both did it. Whoever made the first note, again, to me, it sounds like he had a plan from the start and she was leaning into it.

So that, you know what I mean? So this whole like,  Oh, she came onto a vulnerable four year old man in a relationship. What was me? Cut the bullshit. No one believes that. And if you do believe it, then like, I wish I lived in your fantasy world because like, what is that like? Truly.  Then, they ask her, um, they, she, she just kind of gets into it and she's like, it kind of all spiraled from there.

She felt swept off of her feet. She thought it was romantic. And now it's not because now she's in the situation, and I believe this, she didn't say this so I could totally be wrong and I could be making this up, but I believe that for some reason,  Raquel had probably like a week or so of thinking like,  Oh yeah, by the end of this week, he's going to break up with Ariana because it's all me now, like, he's in love with me, so he's going to leave Ariana because that's how it always, that's how it always goes.

It's like,  this big, incredible, adrenaline moment happened, this thing that like, alters the chemistry of your brain literally, and There is no way in hell that he's gonna go back to the apartment that he lives in with his girlfriend and then two days later like post a picture about their rekindling fucking clinking glasses in a park down the street from your fucking house when you were just here at my house two days ago.

It happened. I have to say it happens every single time. Happens every time. Right. Without fail.  So, and that was a personal anecdote. That's not what Rachel said. That was my personal issues. So  Rachel keeps going on about how, um, well, she talks about her friend and I know what friend she's talking about.

And, and, um, his name is not Julian. Um, and this shouldn't be doxing. Cause I think he makes himself pretty.  Known. Um, I think his pronouns are he, they  on Instagram, but they I'll say they too. He works at Schwartz and Sandy's hall. Beautiful man. Uh, long hair, very, very tall. Always in a lot of pictures. I think that there'll be in season 11  hosts at Schwartz and Sandy's and, but there were some shots of them as the host in some of the, like, Fake opening, you know, fake opening parties that they had for the, for the restaurant.

Anyway,  this person, um, had conversations or it could be the other guy,  the other guy. And I forget his name too. Um, that was friends with Jamie. Um, but one or the other,  and, um, I, and yeah, I can't remember either of their names right now, but it was one of the two I'm sure. And. They were saying, like, you're not acting like yourself, and this is the only friend, it sounds like, that Rachel confided in, um, after a while, because she was acting so weird, and everyone told her, everyone, at least this friend told her, this is not good,  cut this shit, shit out, excuse me, and she was like, like you said, noted,  and she continued to do what she fucking very well wanted to do, which is have these things go, um, and, the Then,  uh, someone, or, so then she kind of, that's the story, right, like that's the origin story according to her of her and, and Sandoval. 

And then they ask her how she's feeling, um, she said it feels good to tell the stories, uh, because she's been telling this to only very close people in her life and now she wants to, um, she's ready to tell the world, but she's also kind of nervous because she Doesn't know exactly how it's going to be received.

She talks about like NDAs that are signed and certain things that you can and can't say. So she doesn't want to be misinterpreted, um, because there might be pieces of things that she can't expound on. But, um, at the end of the day, uh, she was, she realizes that the Tom Sandoval thing was not a storyline.

It was her real life. Um, and she says that it's good to get him off her chest. Part of the reason that she's drawn to doing a podcast and talking about these specific concepts of when you put someone on a pedestal and there's a power imbalance and issues with codependency,  molding yourself to shape someone else's perception of you and getting caught up in the very vulnerable pers very vulnerable personal things that I've experienced is because she knows there's other people out there that struggle with that too.

And she said she's not the first person to be involved in a relationship that wasn't handled correctly, so her story's not unique, but hers was on a much larger scale.  And that was  episode one of Rachel Goes Rogue. Um, now I kind of, I went through that very quickly, uh, but, uh, if you want to back up and if you have any notes or questions or anything you want to say about that Tom story, cause it was a lot. 

The, the one thing that I kind of want to end on and she talked about  before the Tom story,  and this is like one of like, either if this really came from her or maybe she like, I don't know, someone told her this, but I was like, damn, that is good when they asked her like, well, how do you feel about Tom saying he missed you?

And she said he misses all the benefits of And our relationship without actually being in a relationship and also having a committed relationship and I was just like, yes, like that describes this whole thing in a nutshell. So when you hear Tom saying like, what was me? I missed her. I miss her, blah, blah, blah.

That is what he misses. So like her actually verbalizing that wherever it came from, I was like snaps for that. And so like that just like really. It stood out to me in the whole of her telling the story, a lot of people caught out. She seemed kind of like giddy and it almost again, like I think when you're describing that story, I think in that moment she probably did feel really giddy in this like fantasy world that was like seeing like, it literally seemed like a rom com, like in the situation where you're with a guy.

And he like literally lifts you up and spins you and kisses you. So like, I think a part of it was like that giddiness. I think a lot of it too was this nervous laughter thing that she does when telling a story. That embarrassment, that like cringe feeling. Again, this is when I think that I heart ladies popped off because they're like, Oh my God, this was so juicy.

Why was this not on camera? Or like they had like moments where they gasped. I was like, this would be like,  This is like what Bravo fans are like sometimes thinking like they're true. They were like, this is the part where I'm like, okay, this seems to be off script. These are like, they're real, like, reactions.

And so, yeah, so I thought that part was interesting. So it's just, I don't know the  Like I said, I, I didn't hate this first episode. I thought it was very, very interesting. And a lot of people wanted to know about this when she kind of implied that potentially the shorts thing was a decoy or something like she was like, we'll get into that.

And I was just like, okay. Cause I'm, I am curious about like, was this something that her and Sandoval talked about or like what? I'm very curious about that. So I'm, I'm.  I'm curious how this podcast will go as far as like the topics and will these iHeartLadies still be there? Um, so, I think,  I do think, like I said at the beginning, there seem to be more positive reactions to this podcast than Sandoval's.

So, I think, I think Rachel has an audience for a few episodes that she really wants to like hone in on stuff, so I'll, I'll be curious to see like what more she says.  Now this is something I really wanted to ask you specifically.  Who  of the Vanderpump Rules Podcast  have in cast  are whose reaction are you most interested in hearing to Rachel's podcast?

I mean, Sandoval's is just going to be like, I don't, I, I'm not looking forward to that. So I don't really care. Um,  Lala is just going to like pop off and be like, I don't even know what's like going like, she'll just like, go off on tangents without actually knowing.  Lala's never, Lala, whatever, it doesn't matter, what Lala says doesn't matter.

Because whatever she says tomorrow or Wednesday, she will backtrack on the following week. So Lala, to me, is a non, non, non factor. Well, and like I, it's coming from me, who I, I kind of flip flop on, like, how I feel about Lala. She will say, like, even on her Amazon Live today, she will say that she doesn't care, but she will read about it, and then she will eventually say something about it.

Um, and then, I guess out of all of them, I would be interested to hear Sheena's takes, which might be unpopular because people come so hard for Sheena when she talks about any of this. And I'm just like, I feel like Sheena was very honest in her last podcast where people were like, were like, you're calling me out because you, you think that I don't have closure from that friendship.

And you're right. I feel like I don't. And so I would be curious to kind of hear Um, son of some of her takes specifically  about because she knows kind of feels I feel like she's feels like she's kind of in this limbo regarding Sandoval. Right. So it will be just interesting to hear how she talks about it because I do feel like she tries to like reflect and really think about like she will actually.

Do the work and probably either listen to parts of this podcast or like read it, even if she says she didn't, I'm feeling she will.  So out of all of them, if I had to pick, I think I would pick, I'm more interested in, actually, I think I could listen without wanting to like gag would be Sheena's.  Yeah, I would say, you know, Sheena's, if she says anything at all, because she might.

feel like or Kristen's too. That's what I was going to say. Kristen. Yeah. I think Kristen's is the one that I'm most interested in hearing just because,  because of how  detailed Raquel was in that moment. I'm very interested to see if, if Kristen recalls any of those kinds of  Um, behaviors from him from when they were together, like when they first got together.

Cause we don't hear a whole lot about when they first got together. We hear more so about like what happened, you know, midway through and then obviously with Ariana. So I'm wondering if this like grandiose fantasy maker bullshit is something that Kristen can identify with and, and just kind of  see how she feels about Raquel in general.

Like that's.  I'm, I'm interested in that. Um, but literally, I 100 percent agree with everything else you said.  No, honestly, thinking like Kristen didn't even pop in my mind to like the last second. So really, Kristen would be like the number one and then Sheena just because of Kristen's history and then the whole James aspect as well.

Because I feel like Kristen  is sometimes this close to really revealing things, but then other things get in the way. And so that yeah, I would be very curious of Kristen response.  Oh my God, Lindsay, look, we, we listened today to a 50 minute podcast and then we spent nearly two, if not a little more than two hours, 12 hours, 12 hours recapping it.

Um, I'm definitely interested to listen to the next episode, looking forward to your recaps of all of the episodes and all of the responses and all the things. Lindsay, tell the people where they can find you.  Yeah, so you can follow my Instagram account at Vanderpod Recaps, and then if you're on Reddit and you ever see the name AdditionalWar8759,

again, didn't make up the name,  I'm not some white Republican man, um, so that is that, and yeah.  Awesome. And you guys know where to find me at who TF knows Emily Rose on Instagram, WTF K Emily Rose on Twitter at Emily, a go go. If you want to follow my personal Instagram and this podcast, listen, share, subscribe, download, please.

All of the things so that, uh, everybody can hear my fabulous takes on, you know, all kinds of stuff and towels and things like that. All right, guys. Well, thank you again, Lindsay. And I will talk to you guys later. Bye.