Playing Producer FT *Morgan* of the Reality Bites Pod!!! (Vanderpump Rules s11 ep13 RECAP!)

Emily Rose battles near death (a cold and/or sinus infection) to bring a dream to life to ask THE Executive Producer, Morgan of the "Reality Bites" to get some much needed perspective on everything VPR!
They talk about VPR Reddit losing the plot, what Lala's possible motivations are this season, the reality of complicated friendship dynamics and MUCH MORE!
BUT FIRST
Emily Rose can't help but engage Morgan in a rousing game of "Vanderpump Rules" vs "Southern Charm" !

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https://www.instagram.com/reality.bites.podcast/
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Transcript

  Hello, hello, hello, this is Who the Fuck Knows with Emily Rose. I'm Emily Rose, and you guys, you're You're not going to believe who I have on today. You've heard me talk about her podcast, about everything production for several years, really. You've heard me have all of my theories and posit all of these things that I have no idea about.

So I thought, why not bring on an expert? So please welcome Morgan of reality bites the podcast, Morgan. How are you? I'm doing well. Thanks so much for having me. You have no idea how much I've wanted to have you on my show, . Oh, that, that means so much. I'm very sorry. Lauren couldn't make it today. She very much wanted to me as well.

She's on a, on a shoot actually, so we  well, good luck to her. Yeah, absolutely. Gotta work. You know, you got, yeah, you got it. You have to work. Speaking of work, yeah. Morgan, if you wouldn't mind, because again, I have been fancying myself. Some sort of production expert for, for years. And I have no idea what I'm ever talking about.

If you wouldn't mind, if you wouldn't mind giving the, giving the listeners a little bit of insight into what you do, because I think, especially with Vanderpump rules this year, there's a lot of catch all terms that get thrown out. And I feel like production is one of them, right? And I think that a lot of people don't know that there's a lot that goes into production.

It's not just like the, the one on one person, personal producer. It's not just about, there's editing, there's story producing, there's scripting, there's, and I mean that. You know, not literally, but there's, you know, and then there's also like a whole casting department, which is like separate. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do and your experience?

Absolutely. So I, I'm an executive producer primarily for the field. So I show run. The shows that I do, and I'm the leader overseeing things, boots on the ground, in the field, from, you know, pre production, sometimes that involves casting if it's an established show and we're looking to bring on new cast, I may be working in that process a little bit as well.

Um, but then the pre production kind of taking it all the way through production and maybe some pickups in post, but typically I work with a counterpart who is the other executive producer in post and we oversee kind of our respective lanes, field and, and posts. . So when you say that you're a field producer.

Can you get an, can you explain that a little more? So, you know, it's interesting. So I, I'm an executive producer of the field, a field producer. I'm sorry. Yes, no, it's all good. But I also know that there are these kinds of colloquial terms out there. So, That they are some interchangeability, but sometimes it's misappropriated.

Like, you know, it's so funny for years. We'd watch these shows when the fourth wall wasn't really broken much, right? Right. And every once in a while at a reunion, the cast will love to throw production quote unquote under the bus. Right. And it's also funny because on our lane in the production world, there are different kinds of, as you put it, like terms for departments.

Yeah. Production is actually a different department than producers. Productions, production management, which is logistics. It's the money, it's budgeting, it's overseeing the crew, and like, you know, payroll, accounting, permitting, all of the kind of nuts and bolts. Gear rental. Yeah, the shit that really makes the shit run.

Yeah, and the head of the department is the line producer. So then on the kind of creative producing side, there's, I'm, well, I oversee all of it, but I, like my direct reports would be the producing team, which is really who the cast try to throw under the bus. Not right. No. Right. It's a catch all. So I totally get it.

Right. But what I do is, you know, everything from I'm very hands on, I've come up in the industry very hands on. Um, there are some. EPs out there who especially kind of I think more old school that sit back and kind of let Everyone else do the things I'm very involved, probably to a fault. The time to work life balance is when I'm on a job.

Right. But, um, but you know, I'm talking to the cast almost every day. I, if there's a big issue, if there's a brush fire, frankly, 90, 80 percent of my job is dealing with management to a certain extent, whether it's cast management, personnel management, there are always brush fires that just inherently come up in a fast paced production environment.

Um, but I'm working with the cast and with my staff who work with the cast on what their story arcs are, what's happening, touching base with them every day. Let's say two people had a conversation the day before on camera and something was said, touching base with each of them, seeing what they're feeling, seeing what they're thinking.

Kind of thinking, okay, what's the next step? Who would you want to talk to about this? And kind of going from there, because the reality is, no pun intended, the majority of these shows and what the cast do on these shows are have opinions and have conversations. And that's really, um, So, it's just kind of figuring out what makes sense, things that, you know, making sure we learn something new in every scene, that there isn't just redundancy over and over, which we call circling the drain.

Right. Um, and, you know, I, I, on any given show could oversee anywhere from maybe 20 to 50 people. Okay. Something along those lines, between the crew, the producers, the staff, etc. That's That's so much. And that's so much. It's so much to think about. And that's so many hats that you have to wear. I'm so sorry.

Sheena, my cat is making an appearance. Sheena Marie. Oh, you, um, you know, Richard Cunningham might be making an appearance at some point soon because he's I cannot wait. Your attention horse. What can we say? Truly, truly. I think that. It's good to have that context, especially as we move into Vanderpump Rules, we're talking about the season and I think Lala particularly has been accused of producing or being a producer, being on production side or in their pocket, quote unquote, and I'm interested to get to know what you think about that.

And before we do, I want to play a little game. All right. Now. And forgive me because I, you know, when you listen to people all the time, you don't always put a face to it sound. And so I I'm not sure. Did you work on Southern charm? Yes. We both have worked on Southern charm. I did it seasons two through eight.

Oh my God. I have, if this was another podcast, I would just spend the entire time asking questions about that. Did you live in Charleston during that time? Yeah, I've probably, well, I, for when we were in production, I'd say cumulatively, I've probably lived in Charleston for about four years. Oh God. I love Charleston.

And like that spent most of the pandemic in Charleston actually. Oh God. That was a whole different story. That's hot. Like I'm in like literally heat temperature. I'm just thinking like how, of how hot it was. Yeah. Oh my God. If you had to live in for the rest of your life, LA or Charleston, what would you choose?

Um, LA, I can't deal with the Charleston summers. The heat's too much. And I have more options around LA, but, Ooh  I don't know because I, that's really tough. Fuck. Would you raise a family? Where would you, where would you rather raise a family? Charleston or LA? LA. Okay. More options in the South. Yeah, no.

People in the South. I love Charleston. I'd love to have a second home in Charleston. Yeah. I'd love to be able to go to Charleston. Ooh, as a vacation? Yeah. Like Sullivan's Island or Isle of Palms. I love Isle of Palms. IOP is the best. Lauren and I had a, um, had a house there for about, for the summer of season seven.

After we went down for COVID, when we came back up, we were on Isle of Palms for a few months. It was just great. We had a little golf cart. Oh, fun. By the way, if I could live on Isle of Palms, I may, I may choose Isle of Palms. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Different question. Isle of Palms versus LA. Isle of Palms. Isle of Palms.

Yeah, for sure. Well, I, I like to, Do a lot of polls on my Instagram, and I did a series that was Vader pump rules versus Southern charm.  Now, um, you may have a little more insight into this. So don't take it too seriously. I don't take anything seriously. Don't worry. Fabulous. Okay. So I'm going to start and I'm just going to ask you, you just give me your first answer.

Okay. Who has a more malicious spirit? Rachel Levis or Taylorann Green? I don't think either, honestly. Fabulous. Who is the better, more authentic badass? Lala Kent or Madison LeCroy? These are hard questions, Emily. Um, God damn it. I just, cause I have to go with my girl, Madison. I love Madison. That's my choice too.

It's really hard. I love her. I love both of them. Who would you rather go to an invite only celebrity party with? Katie Maloney or Olivia Flowers? Olivia Flowers. Nice. Me too. There you go. Who is more trustworthy? Sheena Shea or Craig Conover? Craig. Wow. You did not hesitate about that one second. I love that.

Gina can't help herself. She wants to be trustworthy so bad, but she does issue and will always be she shoe. She will, which I like to get kind of fun with these, which moronic aw shucks, bumbling ass persona is more endearing Austin Kroll or Tom Schwartz, Austin Kroll. Okay. I, and shorts is my toxic trade as well.

I just know Austin. So I, yeah, I, I give Austin a lot more grace than I, I guess I know that. And I appreciate, I think he, he also appreciates that. Oh, wow. Um, Oh, hold on. I need to cough. I'm so sorry all right. Which quote friend of, would you more like? Likely vibe with in real life. Okay. Charlie Burnett or Vanita Aspen. I like  I'm going to say Charlie just because I know Vanita and I vibe with her, but Charlie seems fucking cool. And I've always loved Charlie.

So me too, but it's hard because, you know, not to get on a Southern charm tangent, I really did not appreciate Vanita as I should have until this season, um, this season, you know, I really. I kind of saw, like, who she was as a person. Mm hmm. It seems like, and like, Her, her, like, dedication to Olivia, I found really charming.

Yeah, I, you know, I think that, yeah, I think Vanita's first season, there were some, I don't want to say growing pains, but acclimation, there was some acclimation Well, her first season was a wild season. Yes. For like, it was really weird, no offense if you worked on it, it was just No, I did, I ran it, it was a lot of It was a weird time.

It was a very, the last couple of seasons were, were challenging. But yeah, thank God every fucking season is challenging. But yeah, there was a lot of stuff that was, you know, hard to contend with that we had to figure out that season. And I still love it. And I love seeing how, how, like, comfortable and how ingratiated Lavinia has become.

I think that it's wonderful. It is. Yeah. It really is. Okay. This one's fun. Which 40 plus lifestyle or ongoing midlife crisis is more embarrassing? Ooh. Whitney Sudler Smith or Tom Sandoval? Tom Sandoval. Okay. What do you think of Whitney? Can I just ask you? I actually I love Whitney. Okay, he's one of those people where you gotta get to know him properly.

You gotta, exactly. Whitney's very different on the show than he is He's not very, I don't want to say he's very different on the show than he is in real life. I've known Whitney for over a decade at this point  and he is incredibly smart and he's a fucking weirdo and he says things for shock value that I think come off a little bit worse on television than they are in real life.

But he, I mean, he's great. Plus in terms of midlife crises, Whitney owns a home in Bel Air. He's got it well, he's just fine. And Tom Sandoval needs to figure his shit out. Yeah, he needs to have a house, because it looks like he's about to be out of one. Whoo! Exactly. Ha ha ha ha. Alright. I feel like I'm gonna know your answer, but, okay.

It's the absolute end of time. You have to choose a partner, or else everyone you've ever known and loved, as well as all civilization, will cease to exist. Who do you reproduce with? Oh boy. Shep Rose? Or Jax Taylor. Oh, Shep Rose, no question. Me too. Intelligent, like he, Shep isn't, look, Shep has his own set, everyone has their own set of issues, but like.

Yeah. Shep's smart, he's, I feel like good gene pool. He has the wealth, the generational wealth. Got that generational mailbox money. He's good.  Shep A hundred percent. And I met Jax recently. Oh, did the first time. Oh, did you? Yes. I went out to LA and I met Jax and it ended up becoming this whole thing because he was being mean about Sheena and Lala.

And so I went up and Sheena's my favorite. I named my cat after her. And so I like . I went up to and I said, why do you hate Sheena? And then he said, because she's a really bad mom and all she does is do drugs and leave her kid with her mom. And I said, Papa Jacks. I thought it was wild for him to say that.

Considering I was talking to him at his bar while his wife was in New York and he was wasted. Yeah. So he cruises with somebody that's not his mom. Um, exactly. And then it just blew up into a whole thing. And Sheena mentioned it on Watch What Happens Live. And, um, Oh my God, that's so fun. I know, but no, I, no one knows that I'm the person that went up and asked him that.

 And then I just talked about it. My friend, Lindsay, who runs, um, Vanderpod recaps the account. Yeah. So she, we, yeah, we went out with, I went out with her to LA. We stayed together. Oh, nice. And she did a recap of that interaction. I think Sheena read it. And so she, she mentioned it to Andy Cohen. I was like, Whoa, I love that.

See, you've made your way into the Bravo verse. Yes, somehow in a way, there we go. Um, okay. This question I asked, but I again, think I'm gonna know your answer. Who is more interesting as the quote scorned ex  archetype. Mm-Hmm. . Naomi Lindo Or Ariana? Maddox. Ariana. Ariana. I agree. Just there's, there is more of a scorned woman archetype.

I mean, Naomi was scorned from Metul, but it was just, it was different and that was a weird season for her. So yeah. Ariana all the way. I still love Naomi though. As do I. Um, this Question. I am going to read to you because I want to follow through, but I feel bad about which complete and continuous train wreck on the show.

Have you found yourself still rooting for the most Catherine Dennis or James Kennedy? Both, but Catherine always. Catherine. Yeah. Is just a delight in my pattern is my girl. I actually just had her on. She's, she's going to be recapping some old Southern charm with me on the Patreon. We just, Oh, I know. Oh yeah.

So we're, that was a lovely episode. She's going to become, she's coming back. She's into it. So we're going to keep going. Thank God. Yeah. She's, you know, Catherine and I, we have a long history, but I got to admit, I have, I have met James before. I've worked with James briefly back when he was far more of a train wreck and he was nothing but lovely.

Well, that's good. So I, I like, I like them both, but yeah, Catherine always. Yeah. Who was more entertaining, Kristen Doty or Leva Bonaparte? Kristen Doty. Agree. Who is more likable  as the girlfriend role to their respective significant other? Paige DeSorbo or Allie Luber? That's, that's a tough, Paige, hands down.

Yeah. Paige stands on her own as well, but Paige Paige does not need to be compared to Craig. No, she does not. By the way, she does not need to be hitched or attached to Craig. Craig needs to be attached to her. Craig. A hundred percent. But like, we all know the truth. Oh, literally. But Allie also is an unbelievable addition and I love her.

Yeah, she's really, I've been really enjoying watching her. Same. Okay. Who really just has the right idea? JT or Billy Lee? JT. He really came in and killed it. So messy. So is Billy Lee, but I think JT is a, has a better goal in mind. Yes. Different, different kind of messy and Billy Lee there's, there's also history with too, which I think colored how she came in this season.

But um, I just, I'll just leave it. I think JT. I agree. All right. This is a two parter. So part one, who would you trust more with your deepest secret LVP or Patricia Altschul? Neither. Okay. Part two, who's a state would you rather inherit LVP? Okay. I love. You know, Chateau, all shul don't get me wrong. I love place.

I've, I love it, but yeah, Villa Rosa, I mean, not even comparable. I mean, no, yeah, there's no, she's got enough. She's probably has the amount in all of trees alone on that property. This is like the entire land value of exactly. I was going to say more than twice my apartment. Oh my God. It's yeah. LVP Villa Rosa all the way.

We were, Lauren and I were just talking about this yesterday. If and when she ever sells Villa Rosa, it's going to be like losing a core Bravo character from any show. Yes. That would be more hurtful than like any of the cast leaving the show.  No question.  Who would you rather end up being the sole caretaker of?

In their  old age LVP or Patricia LVP, see previous. Okay. Exactly. Oh my God. Okay. Well, for participating in that weird poll that I did. By the way, I love that game. That's fantastic. Thank you. 

So,  I want to ask you, are you on any of the social media discourse? Because I know you guys, so when you guys recap. You guys recap a lot, not just Vanderpump rules. We do. We recap a lot and we keep trying to add more. We keep planning to add more. But the people want it. Yeah. We want it. , and by the way, guys, if you're not tuned in to the Reality Bites Patreon, where they are recapping Southern Charm from the beginning, you're missing the fuck out.

Okay. It is a wonderful experience just to hear their takes and the background information. It's wonderful. Oh, I just had to give that little plug. But when you guys recap Vanderpump rules, for example, I know that you don't watch the after show. Um, right. Well, we watch it. We just, we don't typically, we'll reference it from time to time.

But we try not to, we try to keep the analysis and the opinions of the recap of the episode to the time of the episode, which is so challenging because of the social discourse and the podcast and the after show and the, and there's been six, seven months between what we're watching on air and now what we're watching in these after shows and podcasts, et cetera.

So a lot has happened that we don't know about so we try to keep our analysis and our recaps to what's happening in the episode and being able to use some kind of knowledge of the current situation, but not have it influence our feelings about what happened that right? Yeah, and, and that seems like a really reasonable.

Perspective to have one would be . The, it would seem that the discourse online is not always reasonable, in my opinion. I feel like the Vanderpump Rule subreddit, for example, has lost the plot a little bit.

Um, I  I, I echo that sentiment by the way.. And I understand everyone's not going to try to like hypothesize like I do about like what's going on behind the scenes. What, what are the relationships that are happening, the dynamics? But I feel like at this point, people aren't, I don't know if projecting is the right word because we all relate to the experiences that we see on television and we, we have to in order to, to enjoy it and to talk about it.

Yeah. But there comes a point where, If you are only seeing another person's perspective through your own without taking into account anything else that's going on, you're, you're going to, well, some people get very frustrated and you're going to really. I think it must make it harder to enjoy the show.

What do you think people are misunderstanding right now? Maybe from, whether that's from like your point of view as a producer, or just your point of view as a fan, what do you think that right now is really getting lost in this discussion of, of the whole post scandaval? You know, it's, I think that what you said is so spot on.

I, you know, post Sandoval, the Bravo fandom has always been very like feverish and has always been very passionate and intense. And I love that. I think coming out of the pandemic where the social sphere became so much kind of  had such greater impact. In watching when people are filming, posting that online, sightings, scoop, teas, all that shit became really amplified kind of starting the pandemic.

And since then, right. And then Scandaval a year ago, that really propelled it into just a different stratosphere and it affected all the Bravo shows and kind of all the Bravo landscape, but Vanderpump rules far and beyond anything else. For obvious reasons, I mean, this was, I've been in and around the Bravo family for.

Sixteen, seventeen years now. Wow. Yeah, cause I worked at the network for five years before I got into producing. And That's amazing. They, you know, this is, this is unprecedented. Right. This has never happened. You know, the closest comp I can see, I could, Compared to something like this was like John and K plus eight.

When John had six months of like going out and dating and magazine and us weekly, we're covering front, you know, cover stories every week. And it was insane, but that was 20 years ago. Right. Um, you know, with Vanderpump with Scandaval, it became just this different beast and what I think happened with the audience is, you know, I, I have child, we, we are challenged.

Speaking about this on our podcast sometimes as well, because we get such feedback because everyone is so passionate about it. I think that the Vanderpump fandom is very much, there is a parasocial dynamic and relationship happening with, especially with Ariana and with Katie, um, and even with Sandoval, but from a negative standpoint that I think people are forgetting to look at it from the 30, 000 foot view.

I think everyone is very, you know, look, Ariana, A woman scorned, she got fucked over, Tom Sandoval was a piece of shit. Yeah. There's absolutely no question. No. But, just as you'd said before, you know, the reason we enjoy these shows is because we can look at these people on screen and see some of ourselves reflected in that.

Yes. I do think there's some projecting going on. Um, but I also think that, you know, It's very easy to get lost in the weeds and not being able to see the forest for the trees. And what I mean by that is, be lost and stuck in this, just the affair, the betrayal, and everything else. And forget about the fact that this group of people have been friends and had dynamics and relationships with one another for over a decade, the majority of them.

It's not like it's been shake ups in the cast. I mean, Lala's the newest member and she's Right. You know season four. Yeah. So there are a lot of there's a lot of history. Yes. And I think that I think that people are getting, I think that there is an element of the fan base, getting a little too conspiratorial, if you will, about how producers are trying to manipulate.

Yeah. Behind the scenes and using, say, Lala and Sheena as tools. Yeah. And I have things to say about that, but, you know, I think that there is, I try and Lauren tries and I think you do as well, try to kind of take a step back and be fair and look at it from both sides. See the motivation of why people may be, Acting, saying, behaving the way that they are as opposed to just kind of living in a very insular small truth.

I also think that as human beings, we all fuck up. We all make mistakes. And I think we sometimes hold the people on television and these, we look at them as characters as opposed to just people. And we hold them to a different standard. You know, if I had a friend who ended up having an affair for several months, Would I disown them?

I don't know that I would. No. You know, people make mistakes. We're all human. It's about how we learn and grow from that. And I think Because people are seeing what's being said now, and everything that's happening now, we have no clue what's happened between then and now. We can say we do, oh, we know that this and that, we have no fucking idea.

The people who know are the cast themselves, and possibly the producers, depending on if it was on camera or off. But that's it. And I think we all are trying, and I say we all collectively in the community, are trying to, You know, we really believe that what our thoughts and feelings are right. And I understand that everyone's valid in their thoughts and feelings, but if the cast isn't like necessarily saying it, then I'm not going to necessarily buy it, you know, because there is, I think, some projection going on, if that makes sense.

Totally makes sense. I think that you're absolutely right. I think that that, that piece that you said at the end, if, if my I'm going to take my cues from what comes out of the cast's mouth, right? I'm not going to make assumptions of dynamics based on a picture or the fact that someone wasn't a picture with someone or that kind of stuff to me is just like exhausting.

Um, right. And again, you know, there is an element of yes, they're all real friends, but they are also on a television show and they are paid a lot of money for three months of the of the year to show their lives. It's not three months of the year be fake or, you know, be manipulated by producers or be scripted.

It's not that at all. Take it from someone who doesn't. They, you know, this is an ensemble show and they're ha they, they understand what participation means, which is simply, and I say this to all of my cast, whenever I'm on a show, to be a successful cast member, you have to do three things. You have to be open, You have to be honest and you have to have an opinion and having an opinion doesn't mean going out there and like getting into fights and screaming and yelling and drama.

It just means if you're going to say it to me off camera and say, I think so and so is bullshit or this, or I am afraid of so and so doing this, then you better say it to someone on camera and who that is. Well, let's talk about what makes sense. Yes. The conversation. It's not a dictatorship and it's not a puppeteer situation.

Right. And at the end of the day, the The role, the producer's role is to show what's going on in these people's lives. Yeah. And if they are having some sort of internal monologue, your job is to bring it out so that because we don't know as an audience, what's going on inside of their heads, you know? Yes, that's precise.

That's exactly right. And I think what often gets lost in, The kind of the ether at times. And we've talked about it on our podcasts as well is the, you know, you mentioned the inner monologue. That's what the interview chair and the confessionals are. And I don't know if everyone always recognizes it as such.

And most, some people do a lot of people do. And if so, you know, this is not for you, but I think some people think, don't realize that it's really just your inner thoughts. Like if I was with a good girlfriend of mine and she was like, Oh my God, how do you like my dress? I might be like, it looks really cute.

And in my head, I'm thinking. God, that pattern is not the best, but like, I'm not going to say anything. No, I'm not saying that one, necessarily, but something along those lines, where it's not something you would say to their face, but it's a thought internally. And yes, you know that it's going to be on national television if you're a cast member, and it's going to be months down the line.

Also, these interviews are also done Throughout the months after filming and they know that when she think about interview bites across the board on any franchise it on any show they're always a little punchy a little snarky, you know, if it applies and Hosts will also choose the snarky your bites at times Even if there are other options because it is a little punchy and you know what?

It's not supposed to be that fucking serious at all. Exactly. Oh Well, I I I think I just think that we, we need to just go with the flow and if the flow isn't working for us, if we're not enjoying the show, we can just say that we don't have to like, dissect it and then start attacking people's character that we don't know.

Just to justify that maybe we just don't fucking like the show right now, you know, and that's okay. It really is. Cause everything isn't going to hit all the time and we knew there would never be another scandal. I'm

sorry. Okay. Well, I know that we're kind of strapped for time, so I want to just get into the, into the episode really quickly. Let's do it and just go scene by scene and give kind of some, um, overall thoughts, really quick question. Yeah, of course. For, for this season, who do you think is the most reliable narrator and why, or do you think there is one?

I gotta be honest, and this is going to be a very, very unpopular opinion out there and I know that. I think it's Lala. Lala. Yeah. I think Lala is the most reliable narrator. I think Lala is the only one who is actually able to take a step back and see a 30, 000 foot view while also being very intricately involved in it.

I would say actually Lala and James. Yeah. James hasn't been as involved, but James, when he gives his commentary, and you see it in this episode with him and Sandoval, and James can be reactionary as he always can be. And, you know, he got triggered when he goes to the rehearsal and all that shit. But Lala doesn't really have a major dog in the fight.

She's always been a dog in people's fights. She was a dog in Ariana's fight early on. But I think the fact that she, throughout her, through her own journey and taking a step back and realizing that. Some of the vitriol, some of the intensity of what she directed towards Tom Sandoval back in March and April and May and June were, or maybe not by them, but were reflections and projections of her own trauma.

Right. That has nothing to do with Tom Sandoval. No. That has nothing to do with her wanting to be friends with him. That is her own journey and that is her own acknowledgement through her own trauma. Therapy she's doing coming out of that fucking relationship with Rand and also her sobriety journey of which accountability is a very very, you know Important pillar of that journey of that foundation.

I agree. I think that she's being fair I think she can be snarky. I think she can be bitchy and she can definitely be they all are they all are but I think that she is The one who was really kind of seeing it and, and saying both sides pretty fairly equally, you know, Tom Sandoval, and she'll say like, look.

I'm gonna give him a chance if you will, but whether he sails or fails, that's on him and I'm going to sleep good at night, well at night, either way, because this could all be bullshit. It very well might be. I think she knows it is at that point, but it doesn't change the fact that she still can't attach her trauma to him and hitch that wagon in the same way.

And to Ariana, I think she's being fair. I think she is. I know a lot of people don't fucking agree, but I think that she is trying to look out for her friends. I think that she is just being matter of fact. And maybe it's not as kid gloves as some may want, but I also think it bears the question of what's a real friend, someone who tells you the truth or someone who just tells you what you want to hear.

Right. It's, it's definitely, first of all, someone who tells you the truth. I agree. And, but there is a place, there's a time and place for the people that just tell you what you want to hear, too. Yes, there is. And honestly, Arianna is so blessed to have. All of these components in her life right now, she has all of it.

And I think that while I just cannot stand Lala, I am just so glad that I'm glad as someone who has not been able to put up with her for a couple of seasons now, it's for a long time. Okay. It's actually good for her to, for me to see her kind of taking like some responsibility for her, um, misguided rage.

over the years and say like, cause when she goes to Sandoval and she's talking, everyone's like, you just want to be friends. And that's another thing. I haven't seen Sandoval. Nam one of these women's actual personal events. And one person I keep a close eye on is Sheena Shay. Okay. And he has not been to any of her events, to any of her personal shit.

He doesn't go to things. They're not friends unless they're keeping some sort of secret close friendship They're not involved in each other's lives and neither is he with Lala or any of them. So I think that the whole argument of like, well, they just want to be friends with Sandoval. It's they want to be, they want to get along in their daily lives without vitriol all the fucking time.

That's what they want to do in my opinion. I get that. Maybe I'm projecting. No. Well, here's the thing. I think with Lala, that it absolutely is that Lala and Sandoval have never been friends and we have seen that over the years. Um, I'll, by the way, I'll re do that part just so you can have a clean audio.

Um. Thank you, sorry. No problem, producer. I think, I think in these terms. And we do it all the time on our show. Okay. Um, Lala and Sandoval have never really been friends in that way. And we see that earlier on in the season when they're talking about it, you know? Sandoval and Katie have never been friends.

Katie has always hated Sandoval. Sheena has been friends with Sandoval. Now, in this last year or so, no, obviously not. And I do think having he and Ariana together made Sheena's relationship and friendship with both of them kind of be more present. But Sheena and Tom were friends before Sheena and Ariana were friends.

I mean, they've been friends for 14 years. They worked together at Villablanca initially. And, you know, I personally found it kind of interesting. Very interesting and a little, you know, I found it interesting earlier on in the season when Sheena brought up that over the pandemic when she was not making any money, the podcast having canceled, Sandoval just gifted her, you know, thousands of dollars to help her out.

Out of nowhere, she got a PayPal from him. Now, is there some, can there be some kind of self motivation to be the good guy and the hero? Sure. But I also think it's because they do have a friendship and he did care about her and want to help her out. And I think the two can exist. Again, I think every human being is more than just their worst mistake.

Right. Even if that, even, even if they're not a good person, no, no one is just one thing, is any one thing. I mean, none of us are. So that applies to everyone on television as well. And I think that that is definitely deteriorated and I think Sheena is conflicted in terms of Tom, you know, I think that she struggles with these were two very close friends of hers and Sheena was the outcast for many, many years.

She's never really been like for core girl crew. No, she's been fighting for that for a while. Right. Oh, since day one. And I think early on Sandoval was definitely the one who. Welcome to the most. And I know everyone's like, why you can't harp on 10, 12 years ago. I don't know. You kind of can. It's something that can be in the back of your mind.

Um, but I do think that it's interesting to point out as you did that. The friendship dynamics outside of the show are interesting to see, you know, even if they are friends, Sheena shows up for her friends, a Sandoval does at least publicly and supporting certain events. Now why that is, who knows? But I, you know, I think that there are multiple kinds of facets and layers to that.

Absolutely. I think, I think that that perspective is, is the best to take as we kind of dive in. And speaking of which, let's get into this episode if you're ready. All right. So we open with Sheena Shea, Sheena Marie shooting her video finally for good as gold at Kyle Chan's Store. Yes. I have, I did not realize she didn't have a music video for the song.

I gotta be honest. I didn't either. I thought, wait, I, I feel like she does, but this is a 10 year re release or was it, or is this like the first time she's ever done it? I maybe I think this, I think that this is her first video for the song. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. We were, we, we, we, as the, as the audience were do this, we were owed this.

So I'm glad that she's finally giving us this. Yes, and so we kind of, we get introduced, we get Ariana's in the video, we have  Lala comes over after a while, and between this opening scene, we're kind of splitting between them. And Allie and James and Burbank talking about how Rachel did this interview, if you can call it that, because I think that a good interviewer would know the subject or  what they were talking about, but  she did a podcast episode with Bethany Frankel.

Yes, she sure did. And it was received quite poorly, both by the viewers and apparently the cast, as they should, we did a two part episode on it back then when it aired or whatever. God, did you? Oh, yeah. It's, it's so funny because it seems like it was so recent, but I guess it was. A long time ago. I know.

It's kind of wild how time has flown in this last year. But yeah, that, I don't know if you can call it an interview. I mean, it was an interview, but it was a very poorly, poorly done one. And I, you know, I have my own thoughts about Bethany Frankel at this time. Yes. Or another time. Yeah, no, um, I have, I, I think I'm going to have Meredith Lynch on my podcast next week and she too has some strong opinions about that.

Oh, Bethany.  So Bethany does this thing with Rachel where she. She doesn't really know anything about anyone or the dynamics. And Rachel just kind of talks about things that are going on, but in really poor context says that she and Ariana weren't actually close. She says that, um, she was, what did she say that she was like led, that she was coerced into living with Sheena.

She said a bunch of things that just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Yeah. Sheena had like a savior complex. Yes. Yes. No, girl, you needed a place to stay. Okay. I and I give rich. I like I like Rachel and I give her a lot of credit, but that was ridiculous. Yeah So as we're reflecting on this interview now, we go to Tom and Tom Yes, talking about Rachel's interview Sand Hall is just distraught Distraught and I don't understand You Why?

I really don't get it. I don't understand what he thought was going on. I will say when I was listening to Kyle Chan was on Kristen Doty's podcast this week. And one, they touched on it. It was, it's a very good episode.  If you have a chance, I would listen to it. Kristen says at one point that.  When she found, so she revealed to Tom Sandoval that she had slept with Jax before they went to that party where Stassi slapped her.

Yeah, of course. And that Sandoval's one request was that she go to that fucking party with him. Because he did not want to be like, Having to deal with it alone on his own, right on his own. And so I think that maybe that's a little piece of it too, is that he feels like he was left to deal with this shit storm on his own, but this was your own bed that you made Sandoval and your relationship, you know?

So I get that he would feel like he's on his own, but at the same time, it's like, well, you put yourself in this position. So absolutely.  I think that I actually think that's interesting. I do think there's probably an element of that. Um, that said, I also wonder, Sandoval's had a better reception, if you will, I think to the group, solo, than he would have if Rachel was also on board.

Um, that's just my personal opinion. I don't know if the same strides, quote unquote, would have been being made if it was Tom and Rachel coming back together, giving dating a shot, all of that. Then if he's just solo, I, I wonder if maybe at first it was cause I, I mean, I'm speculating here, right? I wonder if it was that he didn't want to face and deal with all of the blowback alone.

I also think that as look, I'm not gonna, I'm not a psychiatrist. I will not officially diagnose, but as someone who displays severe narcissistic tendencies, having someone go on, you know, a national air and diminish him in that way, especially Rachel. Who he has not heard from and effectively ghosted him once she went into treatment.

Is a serious type of narcissistic injury that you see him starting to spiral from throughout this episode. He does it with James, he does it with Sheena. He even kind of white knuckles doing it with LVP when they're at TomTom. And he, he does not want to feel out of control with his own narrative which obviously has been for the year.

And I think he had been in his mind making strides. These last, they're probably two months into production now, right? In his mind. Yeah. In his mind. And now this kind of takes it all back and he doesn't have a control of that narrative. Yes. And I think too, he, I think that he's, I do think that he's experiencing some level of loss with Rachel.

I think that he did kind of just think it would be as easy as he would just get with Rachel and then she would kind of just. Start a relationship with him and Ariana would just pack her bag and walk away. And he seems to be, in my opinion, regressing, um, emotionally. He is acting like a teenage boy. Oh yeah, he's acting like a petulant child.

Yeah, it's exhausting to watch. And I'm like, I don't remember this about him. And so I really do think he might be regressing. Because I don't He definitely had his moments, but this is like every time we see him, he's just being such a brat, you know? Think about it this way, this is actually, in my opinion, this has always been Tom.

But he's not, in the history of the show, there have only been a few times where he's been in a position of kind of moral inferiority. He has always been kind of the self, the self appointed or a self anointed moral authority of the show. He'd be the one who told Jax he was fucking up, he would be X, Y, and Z.

There have been a few times over the course of the show where I can point out or think about when you see him act out this way. For example, Back in season, I want to say six or maybe it was five or so when Ariana first gets approached about the cocktail book and it ends up that was five. Yeah, it was five.

Right. So Ariana gets approached about the cocktail book. You have that lunch with them. And I forget who the lunch is with. I'm just having a brain fart. But no, you're fine. Ariana, like, he's a little bitchy teenager and Ariana just, like, shuts him down and basically doesn't fuck up and, like, puts him in, puts him in his place.

You see those flare ups when he's not in a position of, of kind of perceived control over his environment. And I think because there's no control in his environment right now, it is just misfiring and it is just, like, a flare up, a consistent flare up of that type of behavior. Juvenile behavior. Yes. So, and, and it really comes out, especially when he's talking to Lisa.

Um, I don't know if it's like the dynamic that they have or her being some sort of like mother figure to him or something, but he definitely cannot stand when Lisa talks to him about anything. No, he would, which is weird. And if he was a kid, I would say, Hey, don't speak to her like that. Okay. You know, yeah, but you can't do that.

And I wish she would say something to in the moment. I'm like, well, she, she does a little bit, not in this particular scene, but she has in the past. Yeah. Been like fucking cool it, you know, it's over. It's over. It's over. Exactly. And so  Schwartz arrives at Tom Tom and Logan Loki hits on him a little bit.

I thought that was so cute. And then, and then they. They, they're talking about how TomTom is introducing brunch and Schwartz and Sandoval kind of talk about Rachel's podcast, Lisa listens, and then Lala comes in and asks if she can use Lisa's house as her  sperm party, sperm donor party spot after  Ariana had rejected it.

I would like to know what you think is going on just because I'm curious, did she, is this in Exposition. Is this her just having something to talk about? Did she really not have a space for this party? Don't those things need to be planned super in advance? They do. Okay. Here's what I honestly Go off. I think that it was always going to be a Villa Rosa.

I think that what they Did and, and, you know, I want to be careful in how I describe this because this is not scripted, but at times we have, we use certain things as devices to  allow certain information to unfold. I think in Lala asking Ariana about doing it at her house, which by the way, I can't remember if they timestamp it.

It may have been a few days prior to the party, but just plays as closer in time. Um, but when Lala asks Ariana, really to me, that's a story device to use as a flashback to say that Anna's not there anymore and therefore the house is a mess. So that will lead to Sheena and Brock coming over to, you know, so there's always like piece of information that then propels other scenes and other stories.

I think it was always supposed to be a Villa Rosa. I think this was just a device to A, allow the Anne part of the story to come out that Anne is no longer there, and they are figuring, you know, trying to figure out how to figure that out. And then the, you know, having Lala ask LVP the day before the event, Yeah, I mean that's unrealistic.

I know she does mention in the scene with Ariana and Sheena early on that El Lisa said that if she needs anything, she's there, but with permitting even in and of itself, they knew they were going to do it at Villa Rosa, but this is what we call connective tissue. We needed to hear something to understand that Lala's having it at Lisa's, and both things are connective tissue actually.

Asking Ariana to learn about the and piece of it, and then asking Lisa to then just put the, you know, connect to having the event at her place. Well, that makes me always would rather do it at Villa Rosa than Ariana and Tom's. Don't get me wrong, but come on. I'll wait. Like again, if we had to choose a, an estate to die in Villa Rosa every time.

No question.

Okay. So then, we meet Craig and Craig is so hot and he is Craig's on Bravo. Oh, yes. For the most part. Yes, it does. Great, great track record. Um, Sheena comes over to Ariana's house as a cleaning crew with her, her and Brock.

Yeah. I really connected with the scene because I am almost constantly the Ariana in that situation. Yeah. I've been in several points in my life where my friends have had to come over and say, no, no. No, no. I know you can't, but I have to, you know, that's what a good friend does. Literally. That was like the most good friend thing that someone can do.

That's why I get so upset when people are like, she's not a good friend. Like she came over, she was like  nope, we're not going to put up with the bullshit. I don't want to hear about you. I don't want to hear about it. And I'm going to throw all of his stupid shit away and we just have to do it. And you just have to have somebody who does that in your life, you know?

Right. Like, if Ariana can't touch Tom's things, which I'm not faulting her for, that's totally not No, no, no, no. Progative. But Sheena being like, I don't give a shit, we pick up shit all day, I pick up Brock's shit, Sandoval's is no different, I'm taking his fucking sneakers, and I'm putting it in his mouth.

That is a good friend, and also, Sheena is really coming from a place of looking out for, like, look, if And she says that I think in the chair if the house is so messy that she's not wanting people to come over Then i'm afraid that that's also a reflection of where she's at in her mental health and I want to make sure she's okay So, you know what?

She and brock are gonna come over and they're gonna help fucking Thin like trim the fat and organize and toss shit out, which is what a good friend does And, and she did it well. It looked better even in the scenes that we were watching afterwards. Absolutely. I also though, I think it's tough because all of those boxes, it's because Ariana's getting sent, like, products every fucking day.

All of these endorsement deals. Yep. Mm hmm. So she's getting all this shit constantly and like that, if I get enough Amazon delivery boxes, I'm like, my, the place is a fucking mess. And I'm like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do.  Hold on. No, take your time.  I lost my notes. Oh no, no, you're good. I think what was up next was cause I've got mine  Sandoval, the rehearsal. Right, so James comes over to Sandoval's rehearsal. Also, I love that he brings the dog. 

Yeah, he brings Hippie, Graham, over to just, Intimidate Sandoval. I think he's just doing a little like rub it in his face. I do. That's just James. He's such a little like he is. That's just him.

And so James is supposed to be opening up for Tom Sandoval's cover band at Luray. And I guess James just comes over to kind of feel that out. And. He ends up arguing with Sandoval. And what I think is a, I I'm really not a James fan, but he really dresses Sandoval down in a really fantastic way. I think, Oh, what did you think of that scene?

Oh, I thought it was great. Cause here's the thing. James is, is like open to giving Tom a chance. He's open to seeing. Where it can go and we, we heard him say this in Tahoe, like at this point, it's about what I see from you next, like it's not about you saying you're gonna do this, it's not about words, it's about action.

So let's go from here and let's kind of take it slow. And he's toying with this idea of coming and opening for Sandoval at that performance. And, He gets there and Tom, here's the thing, Tom can't help himself. He is just, he's not only, like, just, I don't even want to say like, in his feelings, he is, but he can't help but also smear campaign Raquel, or Rachel, rather.

Like, he can't help, and this is somewhat odd. In the pathology, but like he has, he can't help but like pump himself up in the situation, thereby put her down and that's not really going to fly for James, even though James has his own set of issues as it pertains to Rachel. Yeah, there. He also sees what it is about Tom and I love how James, you know, completely challenges and just shuts down.

Tom's being a fucking asshole. She was talking about how she was working on herself when she was breaking up with you. She was selfish then. She was selfish getting involved with me. Like told me when she asked you to stop drinking, it was because she didn't think you could do it. And James is just like, you're a liar.

Yeah. It was funny. He was like, but you're a liar. You're a liar, bro. Everyone knows. I was like, I was like, you're right, James. And I, I hate siding with James, but he was He was, he was, he was absolutely right. And then he storms off with the dog. Yeah. I'm not opening for you because I've moved on to bigger and better things.

Yes. Which he has, he really, he played Coachella just not playing to each other. Not at all. Nor will he, nor will he. So we move on to Lala's. Sperm party, um, where she and the girl, I loved this actually, where they kind of all choose the donor. , I thought it was great. I thought it was great too. It was interesting.

I will take something like this over another fucking, we're going to the medium, or we're going to burlesque, or we're going to axe throwing, or scream therapy, like, all of that's so overdone. And I was, I was glad to see something interesting. And I thought that it was sweet that. You know, she had these people that she cares about in the process of choosing who was gonna be her father of her child, you know, yeah, I'm so happy for her.

I really am too. I'm so happy for her on this whole journey. And I, yeah, I just am. As this party is happening, we're kind of cutting between them and  Schwartz and Sandoval and also Katie and Allie have a conversation where Allie stirs the pot a little bit. Oh, Allie. She gets a little messy. She does.

She gets a little messy, but I really think it was innocently done. I think that Yeah. She just uses the word miserable because that's where her brain pulls when it was said was unhappy But yeah is so quick triggered by that word. Yeah, and understandably It's like why all that talking shit behind my back instead of coming to my face I get that but it does it's this game of telephone in Shows.

And by the way, in life as well, this happens in friend groups. Yeah. We're like, Oh, so and so said this when like, it's kind of adjacent to, but not really, and it makes it seem a hell of a lot worse than it really was. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Allie stirs the pot. We, we end up having to deal with this later. And we do.

 And so then Lala, , she chooses her sperm donor. I hate saying that, but that is, I guess that is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. And meanwhile, Schwartz and Sandoval are having conversation because Sandoval has deluded himself into thinking that Schwartz wants to live with him, which he does not unequivocally does not.

And  it's just clear that Sandoval is like flailing about the house. Well, here's the thing. He, I don't know what he was thinking in terms of wanting to buy her out. It would never have made sense, even when he made the offer to her. And I do love Ariana's little like. Um, Interview Byte where she's like, I could have told you that two months ago or months ago and we could have been out of this place, like, and I, it's, it's hard being right when it's all the time or something like that.

I also kind of love that Interview Byte because that's just who Ariana has always been. Like Ariana's always been a bit of a bitch, a bit hunty and in the best possible way. And that's been what we've loved about her for 10 seasons and it's no different now. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think sometimes people forget.

All these people are who they always have been. Like they've, there has been life changes and growth, especially when you become like a parent or you get sober or all of these other things. But like at their core, they are all the same people. Their hallmarks of their personalities have not changed. And I think that we sometimes collectively as a viewership forget that and we try to just imbue them with what their characteristics are, what we perceive them to be now, as opposed to like looking at the history to literally looking at who they are and who they've been like Schwartz is a triple Libra.

He does not end of all, but he is too lily livered to say that to him. Yeah. All it says is the optics are horrible. Yeah, they are. You also just don't want to fucking deal with it because I think Schwartz is a little bit over Tom Sandoval. Yeah. He loves him. He will always be like his brother. They will always be friends, but I think that he's like, Sandoval fucked him over this last year.

Yes. Hardcore. And I don't think Sandoval's ever been fully accountable to him for that.

I don't think so either. And I think that Tom is really realizing how bad he looks by association for real. But then he does stuff in the, you know, in the future where he's like cleaning up for Tom. And I just hate that. I know. I want Tom, I want Schwartz to, like, come into his own and stand on his own two feet for himself.

I don't care about for the fandom or for the show or any of that shit. Like, Sandal does take advantage of Schwartz. Schwartz is another I hate to say victim, but he is another victim of this type of, like, narcissistic tendencies that Sandoval predicts. Not to the same extent as Ariana. He is a big part of Sandoval's life for the last decade, and he has absolutely bared the brunt of some of the challenges and the problems that Sandoval's created.

And it's also his responsibility to separate himself from that, and if he doesn't, that's on him. Everyone's responsible for their own actions. A hundred percent. These are all very grown people. Yes, they are adults sometimes we get a scene. I don't, I don't really honestly care about James and Allie talking about having kids.

I don't really believe James, if I'm going to be totally honest with you, um, I don't know what his motivations to have. I also, I'm, I'm kind of sick of listening to men talk about how they feel about having kids. That's just how I feel. I'm just, I'm curious. Because I think, like, these, the men on Bravo, I don't think that they have a fully realized idea of what parenting is.

I don't think that they have a fully realized idea of, like, What goes into actually like having and raising a child, the toll that it takes on the woman carrying the child emotionally and physically, I, I think that they are so, they are privileged and are surrounded with so much privilege that they just think you pop it out and then you're just doing whatever you want and there's no struggles and I just don't think that's reasonable and I'm just, you know, I'm just tired of hearing men talk about how they want kids.

They don't, they don't know what they want. Ha ha ha. And I, I, I'm just to play devil's advocate here. No, please do. Please. You know, and this is not just about men on Bravo, but let's, we'll keep it to them too. I think that I look real talk. I mean, I have, Friends who have had kids and things like that as well.

And I don't think anyone fucking really knows what it takes to have kids until you have kids, even if you think you do. And I'm not a parent. So take what I say with a grain of fucking salt. But I, I don't know. I think I don't have a problem personally with seeing James or seeing guys talk about wanting to have kids.

Because to me, it's like, to me, it's like, you know, you see when, when we see. A couple plan a wedding a heterosexual couple plan a wedding and it's always like this idea that the woman has the the girl has to be the one who has everything with the way that she wants it but it's just as much his wedding as it is hers and it's just as much a guy's child as it is the the girl's child the woman's child so i kind of feel like no they don't really know what goes into it and yes there is a lot of privilege and you I think no one's fully ready, although I think there are certain hallmarks in time when you kind of are more ready than others.

But I don't know. I personally don't have a problem with it. I think that, you know, guys are, in my opinion, just, they have just as much of a right to want a family and to have that. Kind of that image and that dream as, as anyone does. I mean, for James specifically, he did not grow up in the best childhood, in the best household situation.

His father wasn't around often. His mother obviously went through some things as well, and he's gone through shit in his life, which is why he, you know, got close to Lisa and came over, sorry, I hit my mic, which is why he got close to Lisa and why he came, you know, over and started working at the pump and gal on the show and all of these things.

Um, and I think that. There may be an aspect of James maybe always having wanted to have the family in this next generation that he didn't have for himself. But he was also in his 20s. He's what, 31 now? He's still young, so he just got sober. He's just kind of in this phase where he is in therapy. He is not drinking in the same way.

He is kind of evolving. maturing as he is an adult and thinking about those things and in a relationship with someone who's really solid and great who he could see a future with. I told him for that. Now, do I think that the guys can throw around this idea of like parenthood and Just be naive to what it takes.

Well, yeah, no fucking kidding. If they have, and then they're like, Oh, I don't want to fucking deal with this. Well, that's a real fucking problem. But I think you don't know until you see it. I would never have expected Jax to be a good dad. And I'm not saying I know everything, but he seems like a decent and a present father.

He does. I was, I agree. And I know that's controversial, but I agree. I mean, even just watching him on social media and stuff throughout the years when he wasn't on the show. I think he's a present dad. Yeah. He seems like he's a pretty good dad. Does it mean that he's the best partner? No. Does it mean they're gonna get back together?

Who the fuck knows? Right. But, you know, I think that no one knows until you're in it. Right. I guess I just I guess what I want is for James to heal himself before he tries to   have, raise a child. Yeah, I agree to deter him from repeating patterns. Yeah, absolutely. I think James needs to, needs to like be in a certain place in his own healing journey, given what he's experienced in the last, you know, in his life.

Yes. So in its totality. Yes. Yeah. So, and I know I, we, we don't have a lot of time, so we can finish off. We can get through. Just take your time. Don't worry about it. Okay. We finished off the episode with  Tom, Tom has this grand brunch where DJ Jim Skinney is DJing and the girls are all there and they're having a blast.

And. Bye. Lala has a moment with Katie that is, I think, really, really touching. Yeah. And, and just, like, good to see, like, this is the reality of, like, friends growing apart and, like, things happening in friendships that just, like, sometimes people just don't always, your friendships change over time.

Yeah. Yeah. And Lala made a point where she was like, is it cause I have a kid? And like, honestly, maybe cause Katie's like newly divorced. She's single, she's thriving. She's trying to open a business. Like that's a very different trajectory than the one that Lala's on. And it's hard to keep a friendship in that way.

You know, It is. And I think that it's, you know, I think that friendships evolve in different, based on different like chapters in your life. And it doesn't mean that they are less or more important. It doesn't mean that they are better or worse. They just shift and change. I do think Lala being a mom and.

Sheena being a mom is why is part of the reason why they have grown closer together. I do think that maybe Katie in where she's at in her life versus where Lala is, is part of the reason why they have not been spending as much time together. But I think that these two women love each other very, very deeply.

And they do, they still do in this moment. You know, Lala, It's, you know, Lala and Katie are so similar personality types. They're both very strong, like, exteriors, but they're somewhat soft at their core. Yes. I found it really touching when they're both tearing up here because you do see the love there. And it's not, you know, they say things that lash out to each other.

They say things that lash out to anyone. That's kind of hallmarks of both of them that we've seen over a decade. And Lala said it when they had their heart to heart after their fight, like a couple episodes ago, she was worried that one day they'll say something to each other. One will say to the other, it could be either one just to be hurtful because they're angry that they can't come back from because they both have that in them, but they know that they love each other very much.

And you know, I think that it was nice to see them being like, look, we want to find ways to reconnect and be, and always kind of be there for each other, even if. It seems like they're not as close now. And I also think the vulnerability of even Lala saying, you know, look, I know you and Ariana are so close right now.

And like, I don't know where I fit. There is that little insecurity, because I think as strong as Lala presents and as strong as she is, we do also forget that she, like Sheena, spent Many years being the outcast and being not accepted in, she's been the homewrecking whore, she, you know, and that doesn't, you learn, you grow, you change, but those things stay with you on, in some deep way, you know, and those are, those are deep insecurities.

Those are the things that sometimes we go back to that we know are not logical, but emotionally still impact us. And I think. Everything that you said was perfect. And I also think right now, Katie and Lala are playing similar roles in their friendships to Ariana and Sheena respectively. Yes. And I think that they are, I don't want to say mouthpiece cause that's like negative, but I think that they both feel like Sheena and Ariana are so similar.

They're so similar in so many ways. They don't communicate well, and they don't communicate well to each other. No, they don't. At all. And they kind of need a translator. And, Sheena and Lala have stepped in as the translators for them.

And Lindsay and I have talked about this, where it would be probably best If Sheena and Ariana just had a real conversation about where their friendship is, I agree because their, their friendship is also going through a big change right now. Understandably so. And I just think that. You know, with Katie and Lala kind of experiencing this a little bit of, I mean, there, there's probably so much that we don't know or understand, but a big piece of this rift right now is probably like taking different stances on not just the girls, not just on the, the women, Ariana and Sheena, but on the show.

Yeah and the role that they play on the show. Um, so yeah, I thought that was really touching. I did too, and I think that it's, you know, I think it's interesting to note too that, like, this group of girls, they do want to be together. Like, there are these periods of time where they are on opposing sides.

But they're all kind of trying to figure out this new world at the same time. You know, you start the season with Ariana taking a very firm stance and she has periodically throughout the season of like, if you fuck with Tom, I'm not fucking with you, that's my boundary. And she's entitled to that. But I also think she's figuring this out as she goes as well.

Yes. You know, everyone we're probably at this point, five months out from. The five and a half day, let's call it or whatever. Yeah. Um, but so there's still a learning and growing process for everyone. And. It has kind of divided into these, seemingly divided into these factions of like, Sheena, Lala, and Ariana, and Katy.

What I think is interesting about the Ariana and Katy of it all too is, yes, I mean, Ariana, obvious reasons why she feels the way that she does, no doubt. But Katy's always hated Tom Sandoval because Tom Sandoval has always been a piece of shit to Katy. Yes. Whether he intended it or not, he was absolutely a factor in her, the demise of her relationship and her divorce.

Yes. Yes. So. Katie's vitriol towards Tom Sandoval is not solely, or even majorly, like, majorly tied to what he did to Ariana. It's her own shit. Yeah. The same way that Lala, like, the same It's two sides of the same coin to me, right? Katie's shit with Sandoval is also why she's Ariana's, like, ride or die pump up girl.

Which is someone that you need. That is a good role to play as a friend to a friend who's going through what Ariana is. But Sheena and Lala are important parts to play as well because there are multiple points of view. And the point of view I'm talking about is not like Tom's point of view. It's like looking at it through the rage of, like, where you're at in that moment.

But then also having friends who help you move through the processes of grief. And move through that process. And rage may come up, but I think that Katie sometimes keeps Ariana in the rage. As does living under that, the roof. I think that's the primary thing. Yes. That doesn't, isn't allowing her to kind of move through the stages of grief.

And move forward. Not to diminish her feelings. But just to kind of proc, continue to process. Yes. Out of this trauma, right? Um, and I think Lala is trying to be the one that explains that and it doesn't always land. It doesn't. Not for either of them all the time. No, it doesn't. And that's okay, too. But I do think that poor women want to find a way back.

Not even, I mean, we see them, they're back together and they're with each other, the Spice Girls toast at the end of this conversation, but these four women and now Allie kind of coming in too, there is a lot, a lot of love and a lot of history there. Yes. No one thing necessarily kind of. Completely changes that even then whatever happens at the reunion, which obviously shit happens at the reunion.

Oh, that is so, you know, but even that I'm not there's not, I don't know for sure, but I'd be hard pressed to think that there's no way back from whatever that is as well. Right. Well, we end the episode with  Schwartz and Sandoval on the other side of the restaurant  sulking, essentially, and Sheena  is on the way to the bathroom, which I can attest.

I don't think the bathroom's over there. How about that? I don't think it, I have not been to Tom Tom, but I would, I would say that she probably was just going over there. I think she was just going over there  where she explains to Tom Sandoval that she Mentioned him in a song that she just wrote, and explains the line from Ferrari to a Jetta that you knew better.

And Sandoval says keep eating out of my misery and he storms off. And I thought that was great. I loved it. This was fantastic. I thought it was hysterical. The way that Sheena is explaining it to them being like, you know, it's a couple of lines that were, he's like about our affair. And she's like, well, it's open to interpretation, but then in the chair, Schwartz is like, yes, yeah, it could be open to interpretation.

Except for the fact that Rachel literally used to drive a Jetta. Yeah. I was like, this is great. Yeah. Sandoval has a little bit of a, like a spin out and storms off and huffs and puffs and has a tantrum and grabs his shit and. Pieces on out of his own fucking first brunch. And again, like this is just like a little narcissistic spiral.

Yeah. We're really watching him spiral. Oh yeah. He is going to spiral from here on out is my personal opinion. Yeah. It's going to be hard to watch. I think, yeah, I think it is. I mean, maybe he'll be able to snap into like his. recovering in a way, like recovering his image or trying to at least, but the podcast coming out when they were right in the middle of production and everything that she said and everything that we all as viewers who experienced the social media kind of shit storm as it happened.

Right. It's just going to get worse and worse for him, so it's just going to spiral on camera, which is this weird symbiosis in the new world of Bravo, where it's like, shit that's happening in the real world is impacting what's happening on the show, is impacting what's happening after the show, and it's just the never ending cycle now.

Which is It is. And we have, I think, three more episodes until the reunion? Oh, is that right? So there's, oh yeah, 12, 13, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye. And I'm just, are, how are you, are you ready for the rest of the season? Are you ready to get to the reunion? I am. You know, look, I gotta be honest, and it's interesting, I take all of the social media chatter out of it, which is very hard to do, I'm actually really enjoying the season.

I think that what we're seeing is exactly what I expected or would want to see. It's exactly what I would have I've done as a, like, wanted to kind of set out to do it if I produce the show myself because you know, I think it is interesting seeing how do you pick up the pieces of a friend group when such a huge betrayal happens and what happens within the dynamics of a group of friends who have been in each other's lives for so long.

And I think we're seeing a lot of ups and downs here and I think, you know, seeing Sandoval try to redeem himself and ultimately knowing that he's not going to be successful in that I don't fault the effort because that's what anyone would do. Right. You, you hurt, you do something terrible. You completely isolate yourself from your friend group.

Well, you want to try to get back in good. And for him, it's, he's trying these different ways, but at the end of the day, his own base or instincts can't help himself and he will always shoot himself in the foot, just as Lala had said a few weeks ago, you know, whether he succeeds or fails, whether it's bullshit or not.

It's not, I'm not going to lose sleep. None of them are. Right. Giving him the opportunity to sail or fail and ultimately I think we all know that it's going to be the latter. But I'm excited to see how it, how it ties up me too. And wow. Well, thank you so much, Morgan, for coming on. You have put up with me being very inconsistent and sick and on and off camera.

So you didn't see me like tilting my head to the, to the sky to try to keep the drainage, um, man, for having me. I I'm so happy. I finally got to talk to you and I hope to get a Lauren on soon. And listen, tell people where they can find you. Okay. You can follow us on, you can find us on Instagram at reality.

bites. podcast.  You can find our podcasts on all platforms and our Patreon where you have Vanderpump rules and Southern charm rewinds and some other fun things  which is patreon. com slash reality bites. And you guys already know where to follow me at who tf knows Emily Rose that's at who tf knows Emily Rose on Instagram WTFK Emily Rose on Twitter and wherever you find your podcasts.

I am so happy you guys tuned in and I will talk to you guys later Buh bye