The Emotional Whiplash of Blake Lively v Justin Baldoni ft BravoBravoDuckingBravo

Emily Rose welcomes guest "Bravo Bravo Ducking Bravo" to the pod to discuss her 15-part series on the "It Ends With Us" Legal Saga, Justin Baldoni and Blake Livelym the politics of Double Pants, remaining unbiased in an emotionally charged space and so much more! 

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Transcript

  Hello. Hello. Hello. This is who the fuck knows with Emily Rose. I'm Emily Rose back. Like I never left guys. I know you haven't heard from me in a while, but that's okay because I think today we'll definitely make up in not, if not for in content than in our wonderful guests that I have here with me today.

Bravo, bravo, ducking. Bravo. How are you? I'm so good. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to have you and I'm not one of those hosts that can do a really eloquent introduction for my guests, like, like I'm not particularly verbose in that way, but I have to say that I have been a fan of yours for a long time.

Um, I was introduced to you through, um, Andy's girl, Sarah galley you guessed it on some other shows in the past and you really.  You've had, you've been kind of like in the Bravo sphere, obviously for a long time, but then you finally got your own show, which is, has been so great to listen to. Um, how has it been kind of navigating going from being a big account to being a podcast host from a guest and all of that?

How has that been for you? I've absolutely loved it. It's been so much easier for me to explain a dive or something I'm interested in via pod than it can be to like break it up over like 50 or 100 Instagram stories. And then it goes away and nobody can find it. And, you know, the recaps that I do, it's I think better to have it on pod because if somebody is catching up with a season, they can go back and listen to it.

Um, so I do miss it though, because it was fun to sort of watch a show live or talk about something just on Instagram. Instagram and have that back and forth one on one with people that would be making comments about it or dropping me a dm about it But you know, I think overall it's better. So it's just been the the bittersweet knowledge of like that means less time Dedicated to instagram stuff and more energy on the pod, but it's longer lasting I I was going to say I think just in general the You know, Instagram, I think it might be going out of style a little bit for, you never know.

Right. With a social media platform. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think potting is, is a much, much more sustainable platform. Also when, when I reached out to you about coming on, I realized that you, I had talked to you on Instagram and DMS years ago, because you were one of the creators that was, um, It within legal bounds recording, recording live, a lot of Bravo con for people that couldn't go.

And I was like glued to your feet. I remember I was sitting on my couch and I was just like, I had my tablet, my computer and my phone all Bravo, Bravo, ducking Bravo across the board, just watching you put all the updates. So it really is cool that you, that you've kind of transitioned into this and  Another thing that I wanted to just briefly get your opinion on.

Uh, I can't remember it, it might've been Sarah's podcast. It could have been someone else's, but  you had takes about Scandaval, um,  fairly early into it that I think went slightly against public sentiment or like the popular opinion. And I was just riveted by your, I mean, it was really, really hard.  It was really hard to express opinions and feel like you were getting your point across as, for me as a podcaster when, after Scandal All Broke, and it's funny that we're going to get into Justin and Blake here shortly because I have also experienced that in different ways, but how did you, did you feel that?

Was that just me as someone who had like different opinions from the And The mob, the crowd, or did you also experience that? Oh my god, remind me what I even, what was my take? I'd have to go back and find it. But I mean, I, you know, I think with anything, I don't like when the crowd tells you like you're not allowed to, you know, ask a question or come at something differently.

Like the Paige and Craig thing, for example. You know, I feel like the world piled on. I don't know her. I'm not saying I'm a, I've really never followed Paige, but like when, when a couple breaks up. The last thing I'm going to do is like shit on the woman, right? Going to happen, especially not when I've been watching Southern Charm from its inception.

That's yeah, Craig has behaved.  Right.  So I think that can take over sometimes, you know, like the loudest voices in the room make everybody feel like, yeah, I mean, I guess that is what we should. Yeah. Why did she write? He's such a nice guy. What? I'm like, you don't know. We don't know, man. No idea. Yeah, no.

Yeah, that definitely. I can't remember specifically what you said, but it was something in the realm of people. Well, with Vanderpump rules too. It's like, we got some, we have some very toxic men and we have some, we have some toxic women. We have some toxic women there too. And in this, um,  fight to,  you know, champion like Ariana and Katie as like girl boss Queens, there was a lot of verbiage and rhetoric around Lala and Sheena that was not in line with what. 

What you would say about  women if you're championing like, you know, and so for me, I was hoping for that girl boss season. I remember thinking that and I thought after what happened to, you know, between scan of all and all of that, I really hoped for a season because they had a couple of different like photo shoots where all the women were together.

I think their hair was like in towels. I can't remember all of it, but I thought, Oh my God, this is going to be so great. It's going to be like. over the show and pushing out these men who are like holding them down, like, you know, weights around their necks, like, let those guys go off if they want to try to have their own spinoff show.

But I feel like it's stunting the maturity level and growth of where these human beings are like trying to get to, or maybe not, maybe not trying to get there, but I felt like Ariana and others, you know, were, and I was sad to see that, that, you know, they started. Kind of piling on her and saying enough already.

We've heard about it. You know, like who made you God a guy cheated on you big deal. And I was like, what are we doing, right? It's happening. Yeah, it got pretty out of control. It got pretty out of control. Um, but now we don't have to worry about it. So that's true. Look what happens. You implode your own show.

Tell ya, we don't have to worry about it at all.  So let's move into  Let's talk about when I started listening to your, your podcast, High and Low,  and you started covering the Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively. Man, I didn't know what I was getting into. Oh, girl. I was, yeah, I was originally covering, cause it was so weird when the movie came out and they weren't taking photos together and we're like, what's going on?

And so I started covering that, but we had no idea at the time that there was going to be a lawsuit filed and all that stuff. Yeah. And I'm glad you said that because I'm interested to hear your perspective when the quote unquote drama was going down with the release of the film. Um, and kind of how over the course of time, and of course with Blake's New York times article and all that dropping and then Justin's subsequent response, kind of how you've navigated it.

Because I remember you said I think it was in like Maybe midway through your series, you said something at the beginning of your episode that really resonated with me. You said, Hey guys, like, I know that this feels really serious and in some ways, like there are serious things that could come of it, but it's not.

That serious because these are people that  at the end of the day, they both are going to be fine and trying to pretend like if it turns out either way, both of them are going to be fine. Arguably, maybe Justin's career.  Would be taking a hit, but if he did what he's accused of  we shouldn't be upset about his career taking a hit, right?

Like that shouldn't be a problem. So  And I remember when the movies came out and whatever. I really did not  Didn't take too kindly to Justin. He's just not my type of dude, I guess and so I Remember when when that was happening thinking man, I really Don't fucking like this guy. Whatever he's got going on is just not for me.

And I said it on my podcast and people were like, They kind of agreed with me, but they of course were like well Blake blah blah blah and I agree I also can't stand her but when her complaint dropped in December I was like, I knew there was something wrong with this man  and then only to to turn around and kind of be like Maybe I was wrong.

So how did I know this has really been and that's what irritates me about the whole situation is that I I don't think it does either side favors to jerk us around and give us half truth and I feel like that's going to be her biggest obstacle now that it is because I mean. I kind of felt the same way when I see what happened at the movie premiere when we were all living that in real time Everybody was sort of saying like what the hell is going on here Why are you being so awful to the person who is the you know lead actor director?

no matter what you feel about him like it's inappropriate to kick the director off of the Out of these like photos and right dinners and movie premiere and all of the promos It just was I've never seen anything like it. That's why I stood out I've never seen anything like that before and We had no idea at the time that it was more than that that it was like also the editing like it's egregious Yeah, and but when her you know, her lawsuit was filed The fact that the New York Times came out with a corresponding article, that was extremely powerful.

Yes. So that, for me, as I'm reading it, I'm taking it as, this has been fact checked, this is good to go. And so to read the things that were in her suit, I was fired up. I was like, I can't, okay, well this makes sense now. Wild was so weird,  but then when he comes back and his side says like those were cherry picked.

Here's the entire conversation  Wow, now that's really bad. Now. We got it. Now we got an even worse situation Now we got a tangled web of deceit like who's being honest with us and that's the worst part about being just a member of the general public right now is Wondering what's real and am I being manipulated and you have to just keep your wits about you and that's when I felt like I saw, you know, the world being pulled left and right.

And there are people who are diehard fans of one or the other. And that's why I started like doing a disclaimer of, they're going to be okay. Like they both have a lot of money. They both have a career still, they'll be fine. And you know, there's been manipulation here.  Yeah, I think what kind of where I've been trying to come from, it's funny, I've tried to do an episode, like an introductory episode, um, about the situation three or four times, I have four recordings that are just never going to go anywhere because it's like every time I try to record something, I know something else happens, right?

Something else happens or even sometimes my opinion will just like randomly shift and that's okay. And that's because we don't know. Don't, we're just people who are trying to learn. We don't know. That's it. We don't know. I think that I, I disclosed this to you before we started recording, but I'm one of the mods of the, it ends with lawsuits, Reddit, sub Reddit. 

Mm-hmm. Which has grown significantly and very quickly.  And the purpose of that sub  originally, but the person who created it was. And still is to  kind of take a the most neutral approach and in some ways people have gotten offended because they're like, well, you can't be unbiased. It's not really so much about being unbiased as it is accepting that we as the public don't know and that these are 2, both of them  very powerful people that are both trying to.

Get our attention trying to possibly manipulate us and there's a lot of stake here. There's a lot of stake for both. Yeah Yes, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I think that the the back and forth the push and pull has been really Intense. You've been covering it beautifully. Now you've done what are you on 15?

Are you going to 16? Next one will be 15. I'm hoping to take a break after that. I mean, they just keep the fact that they're litigating it in the public eye is really where it's kind of going sideways because you have to read the legal documents and that's why I try to read directly from them. And then I put a link to all of them on my Patreon like those are posts that you don't have to be a paying member to see because it's so hard to keep up with.

What actually happened versus what is narrative and what is rumor, right? Right. I think also recently, I believe it was you said you are viewing the sexual harassment and the smear campaign as two separate issues. Like  it's hard and that's difficult to do because  Blake and her claims is kind of using one to bolster the other.

She's saying they both are using. Yeah. Yeah, well, yes, they both are. They, they both are. Uh,  she's saying that the reason that he would, this is, um,  okay. Sorry. When I think too hard about this, it hurts me. I know. Um, yeah. She's saying that he retaliated against her with this smear campaign that was employed by his publicists and folks,  because he knew that she was going to release the sexual harassment complaint that she complaints that she had.

What I'm confused about is that  none of the,  the smearing  of Blake's public image.  In full hasn't actually hadn't actually occurred yet, so it's confusing because I'm like, well, what?  How did he smear you? He didn't smear you. You know what I'm saying? Like that didn't happen. So I don't understand. Please explain.

It's very tangled. I mean, I'm not, I'm just, you know, observing from my little spot in the world, right? But yeah, so I'm trying to keep separate. The question of whether or not sexual harassment pervasive and ongoing and, you know, serious sexual harassment took place separate from did she steal this man's movie, right?

Those two things, too, right? So he's saying. Yes, she stole my movie and she's saying sexual harassment as a way of like, you know,  that was her leverage on me. And the fact that I signed this original list of 17 things and then it expanded to 30 things, you know, 17 things in November, 30 things in January 4th meeting.

And then, you know, she's saying, no, the sexual harassment was her face of the whole time.  And then like, you ruined my public image. Because I, I did that because I called that out and didn't want to be near you, you had all these bots flood me when we are, you know, doing the movie and what's frustrating about that is I don't think that I really do not think that she can take or has any way in any of the documents we've read, take any accountability for all the faux pas and Bad choices that were made in the marketing of the movie and then saying, Oh, no, that was Sony's, but it's like, but Sony didn't,  you can't say that.

So, and I got a lot of beef with Sony too. Cause they were like the grownup in the room. They should have stepped in a long time ago is how I feel about it. And yet they're not being kind of held to the fire on this by any party. It doesn't seem right. But to say like, Oh, this was all of him smearing me.

And. The public is all against me because of him, like ma'am, you gotta own up to some of the stuff you did that really rubs people the wrong way, and this is not a new trend, this is a pattern, a long standing pattern with when you try to launch things or try to do things, it's quite tone deaf, and it can be quite offensive, and now there's a movie about DV. 

So, yeah, I think there's just a lot and that's and that's why this case is just really, you know, captured so many people's attention is that it's like 15 things, right? And if you're listening, guys, I can't stress this enough. I'm gonna I feel like a fangirl. So I apologize for that. But there are so many things that Bravo, Bravo, Doug and Bravo says in her series that Really resonated with me.

One of the things that you said, and again, I apologize. I can't remember which episode, but you said something to the effect. I can't either. Don't worry.  I mean, it's been crazy. Basically, you say that you resent being told that you have to accept that this woman for years engaged in behavior that was racist uh, inappropriate condescending, or just in relation to the domestic violence in the movie, completely tone deaf, completely um.

God, you didn't, I don't know that you said this, but for me, she  really has center herself  in this whole thing, and I'm not saying that she shouldn't. If sexual harassment occurred, of course like you should get  whatever you need from that experience. Of course. I see. What're saying doesn't happen.

Mm-hmm . But my God, I would really think. That you would I don't know she didn't talk about domestic violence and it's not Sony's problem I read that we read the thing Sony Sony didn't say  Under no circumstances should you talk about domestic violence? They gave like the Suggestions like the try to stay away from it only answer if directly asked which is like Guidelines, but that's not  you're not bound to To try to and refrain from if you can and steer away only if, like that's not binding language, so you're not necessarily, you don't have to do that, you,  you certainly don't have to.

Yeah, it was, it was a shitty Word document that looked like it was made at 11. 59, due at midnight.  Certainly wouldn't be something that I would think, Oh, I'm contractually bound. There was no severe language that I read that said, You must stick to this and not veer from these, like, 15 talking points. It was like, just in general, like, You know, make it, keep it light.

You know, it's a story about hope. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Part of me, too, uh, wonders,  If they were, this is, this is getting a little too into it, and I do have some more broad questions, but when I say stuff like this, I'm like, I wonder if they really were angling for like. Romantic comedy vibes so that they could fall into that category for award season because they certainly weren't going to get drama with the, with the other films that were in that category.

So I'm almost like, maybe they thought they could, but I don't know how that works. So now I think if he had gotten his director's take, it would have been more of a drama. Yeah, you know, with a, with a love story in it, we've seen plenty of movies like that, where there is a, you know, a beautiful love story, but it turns into a drama.

It is, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna insult a movie that I like very much by saying this, but. Um, no, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to do it and I'm going to do it, but there are plenty of movies where it's like a beautiful love story and then things go off the rails. Right. And I think his would have been more artfully like that.

I'm, I'm giving him a lot of credit by saying that, but, and we may never know because we haven't seen his version of it, but I'm judging by the poster that we saw that he had created. That was his vision, which was much more. Like art house kind of I if I look at that poster and then I look at her poster I get the completely different visions for it.

Yeah, and her seems more rom com more Palatable for grab your girls wear your florals  and his is more like this is serious Yeah, this is serious topic that we're talking about definitely. Oh,  I don't know I think it would have been more of a drama and then in part 15, I'm gonna talk about There's a creator online.

I want to make sure I give her her flowers. I'm gonna look for her name, but Melanie King, she noticed that in a variety article, I believe it was that it described the movie as like a blockbuster rom com. Yes, I saw that. And then later on, they changed it. Yes, yes. So it used to say that. And then when Blake Lively was going and doing promotions for the movie and talking to everybody in movie theaters, she said, it just feels like a big, beautiful summer film.

So I think that is. How they wanted it to be, you know, that they wanted it to seem like this big summer romance movie, almost wild to me. It is. And was that also when?  Is this the same article or was there a different article  that, uh, or maybe it was an interview, Jesus? Like there's so much. I have to keep notes.

I have like written notes and categories. I know that referred to it as her directorial debut. That's the same. That's the same one. It's the same one. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they changed it to produce Aureal. Like, guys. Yeah. I know. The internet's forever. Oh, God. Now, I do want to talk about the movie itself, which I have not, uh, watched in full and I haven't.

No, I've, I've, I've watched so many other YouTubers watch the movie that I feel like I get it. But, and, and, and you've expressed we've made it both, I think, clear if we haven't. We should that. We're not lawyers. Um, we're not giving any kind of advice in that way. But if you were  and you were to try these people, Blake or Justin for, or their teams under the crime of audacity, would you try, would you try Jennifer Abel for  personally texting other people on her work devices or  Blake for her fashion crimes, which would you oh, I'm gonna go with the fashion crimes because okay using the phone your work phone to text Personally is something that you know, many people can just easily be guilty of you Don't it doesn't hurt you especially on your work computer.

I guarantee you Most people that I know, they're just like searching random stuff on their work computer like they're watching or checking their personal email because they can see that, yeah, don't do that. I know it's like impossible because of the way that we've decided as human beings to live on this planet where we're like sitting at a computer that's not ours for like eight hours a day, but don't do it.

Um, but no, I would definitely go for the clothes.  So you have had, you've had so many strong opinions. Uh, And I'm not a fashion girlie. I don't know anything about fashion. I mean, I'm sitting here in workout clothes, like,  And I don't think that you have to, like, I don't need to have gone to the Met Gala to say, Those clothes look like shit like I, my opinion is still valid just because I'm not a famous person and I feel that way about so many people online and like I always say with Real Housewives, you don't have to have money to have style, you don't have to have money to be a person who's into fashion like right you have an innate sense of style and you come on TV, we can tell.

So it doesn't have to be labels and name dropping and all that stuff. Right, right. Well, I.  This kind of just goes hand in hand with the, the, the film. How did you, fashion aside, of course, how did you feel about Hard to do, but okay.  Well, I mean, please, but please, because truly you're, you are so funny when you talk about the The fashion and the pants, Jesus, and the shoes and  what did you think of the movie as a whole as a film?

Um, okay. So I did a, I did a thing where I watched the movie and then I was like recapping it while I was watching it kind of like mystery science theater 3000. It was lifetime movie level to me.  Um, it felt, you know, tropey  and a lot of areas. It was, I felt that the fashion was very distracting. It didn't fit.

It was out of place. I mean, the, one of the first things we see on the screen, we, she hasn't even spoken yet. And we see a bag that's branded, you know, this Valentino bag that she's carrying around everywhere. And to have such a strong label, it's just like this print with like VVV like all over it. It's undeniable that the bag is like pushing a label.

And then later on, there's like a Valentino dress with the full name. You know, in glitter all over it. Yeah. A sequence, whatever. I don't care. Yeah. And it's just, it took away from it for me. I'm like, I'm supposed to be watching. I don't know, either a big, beautiful summer movie. Or a drama. I'm not sure which one.

And either way, I'm very distracted by the close ups of shoes and these crazy outfits and choices that were made and the beanie and the double pants and tucking a wide leg pant into a narrow top boot. And I, my mind, I'm not the person for that. Like, I can't go to a movie and not notice something random.

Like, if you've ever seen me like recap a show, I'm like, what's in the background in your room, Mary? Like, let's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are those four bottles of Clorox spray? Yeah. I,  I'm not the audience that can overlook something that stands out. Yeah, no, for sure. Uh,  from the clips that I saw,  again, I haven't seen the movie.

Uh, I also was. I was pretty taken out. Yeah, the, the double and triple pants is a, it's a lot. It's a lot to take in. It's a lot to understand. It's a way too much for me, of course, and  we'll get there. But the, the leaked, montage scene that Justin's team leaked of the two of them slow dancing, the very end of it is a close up on, on a heel,  like, I just wouldn't wear to a bar, just in general, and I don't know anybody that would, and I go pretty extra with my clothing, I'm pretty, uh, Yeah, I mean, I never go out, so when I go out, stuff's happening, stuff's poppin I'm, I'm looking cute, but I don't know that I would wear that kind of stiletto bubble gemstone, whatever it was.

Very expensive. Yeah, she goes to like a party or yeah, it was the party at you know When she's wearing like a camo was she wearing that with the camo dress? Yeah, I think she was in a car heart jacket Yeah, that shit. I was like, I don't know what's happening  The sky blue is the grass green, but this is another situation where as I was watching it and  I think at that point I had read the lawsuit hers and his by the time I watched it.

Yeah. And so I knew at that point that in my mind, Sony dropped the ball, right? So they came to Justin, this is his third movie. It's his first big movie. And they said, Hey. You need to go convey, according to him, you need to go convey to Blake Lively,  who prides herself on being a fashionista. Yeah. Fashion for this movie that you're shooting so far, people have seen photos of it on the streets of New York, and there is an outrage online, and I remember the outrage online.

I remember just scrolling on my phone, and there's a random photo of Blake Lively looking nuts, and I'm like, what is this? What is this movie gonna be? What scene is this about? So him having to go in there and try and have a conversation with her, I think they set him up for failure. First of all, yes, yes, that was never going to go well.

No, no, that's not his job. That's not he shouldn't be. And she defines herself by being someone who is like Miss Fashionista. My, my taste, my style, my point of view. Is cutting edge. It's avant garde. I know what I'm talking about. Look at these hobo pants that are 800. I'm going to put two of them on. Yeah, that whole thing.

Yes. So they should have sent someone. And I think it should have been a producer from Sony. It should have been Ange. Yeah, Ange. Yeah, we can talk about Ange in a second. Also that. Interaction that you're referring to wouldn't wasn't that where she would eventually say that he was like in the trailer.

It was hours long Yes, I have to say there were some things in her original complaint and If, I mean, I have the internet to prove it, okay, and my personal texts if you need to go through them, but I sided with Blake. I read that. Me too. I was so self righteous. I was so fired up after I read hers. Yes, I was ready to fight him.

Yes, me too, but there were still a couple of things that immediately stood out to me as like, I don't think this happened that way. And that was just like, but it didn't take away from her being sexually harassed. It just yeah, some of the things like that was one because I just, from what I could tell him what,  how I gauged how he acted.

I kind of felt like, I don't know, I feel like he probably went in there and got emotional and she's like saying, like, that was just something that I just felt that was just vibes, but that did not take away from the fact that I was ready to, you know, yeah, pull up on him. Um, also just,  well, some of the things that were mentioned in the New York Times article,  I,  That wasn't it.

It wasn't until I read the complaint that more of the stuff kind of stuck out to me. Um, like I noticed immediately from the actual complaint that a lot of the stuff was kind of like her saying that people said it. And so recently in the past couple of weeks in her amended complaint, and then this, this, like.

Weird floating HR document that we don't know if there's any truth to it or not No, I'm only gonna believe that if one side if one side officially puts it out But I don't know where that thing came from and is it real? I know Yeah And so it's it's hard to determine but  I noticed immediately in her original complaint that some of this stuff was like it wasn't happening to her and so It's not that I didn't believe it happened.

It's just that, why are you using this? That would be one thing. The, talking about the dead dad is another thing. Um, the God.  Oh, COVID. COVID on set. COVID on set. That's another thing that none of that stuff has anything to do with either her or sexual harassment. And I noticed that stuff. Um, but then it was just like the stuff that, that I did that seemed to be about her and sexual harassment.

I was like,  this is, this is a slam dunk. And the only way that you could have convinced me otherwise was to essentially publish like an 180 page website. You know what I'm saying? Uh, what are some things?  Is there anything that stands out to you right now that, and actually, before we get there, can you explain Ange to me because you've done such a good job of talking about her and it's just something that I have not been able to retain.

I mean, from what I understand, Ange was the producer from Sony who was part of it from the beginning. We learned throughout the journey of their filing back and forth that there were assistant directors who were let go that there was Todd Black, the producer brought in, but there were two women who were part of it from the beginning.

Um, Ange was the, the major producer from Sony and. You know, there are messages between, uh, Ange and some people are saying Angie, but it's A N G E. So I'm saying Ange, but between Ange and Blake, where she's congratulating her, commiserating with her, like, oh, what you've just told me is so serious. Um, and that she first went to Ange with her complaints, her concerns, rather, and  that then, you know, Ange's whole thing was she went to Wayfair.

And now we've learned with the amended complaint that by the time Ange went to Wayfair, she'd heard from Jenny Slate and Blake Lively, and Jenny  Slate's complaint about the experience on set was allegedly about feeling uncomfortable that, uh, you know, Jamie Heath had offered to pay this 15, 000 for her to move out of an apartment that wasn't up to par with what she was looking for, but she didn't want to lose a deposit.

And he's like, we'll do that for you, but she didn't apparently like, and by the way, they didn't say Jenny Slate. They didn't say Jenny Slate felt that it was like an actress on set. And then later on, someone else came out in a report, a verified source that was like, we believe it to be Jenny Slate. Yeah.

Or we, we've heard that it's Jenny Slate. So that's what the public's going on, but that he's emphasized the sanctity of motherhood in a way that made her uncomfortable. And this is where it's touchy, right? Because what did he say? We don't know. We don't know. Jenny Slate has not spoken. We have not heard details.

And so I'm, I'm trying to, throughout this entire thing. Just reserve a place for myself in the universe where it's like this could be true and this could be true, right? Oh,  let's just like stay on the ride but not Not condemn anyone a hundred percent yet of like, oh this this is what happened and fill in the blanks here It's like I want them.

I want the women to tell us what happened and that's why you know, it going to trial I think is gonna be so important if they really do feel like this was sexual harassment. It was pervasive The set was toxic. They talked about our bodies. They objectified us They talked about their dicks like all I still have a huge list of all the things they say the men did Every time I read something that he files I'm trying to see Is he addressing these things?

Which ones have never been addressed? Right. Which ones have been, if possible, you know, debunked? And then which ones do they have completely different versions of what happened? Like, was she or was she not wearing black briefs instead of being pretty much nude with just a little piece of tape over her, you know, crotch area stirrups?

Um, Right. I cannot for the life of me figure out why neither of them  Like, obviously, the assumption is, well, if Justin hasn't provided it Then she must not have been wearing black briefs, but then why the hell would you say that and then for them for for Blake,  if you weren't, I mean, obviously, I don't want to see her, you know, whatever.

But like, this seems like a pretty easy thing to like,  throw out there. Because again, and then, of course, we get into this discourse of,  well, is it really the public's Business, but it is. It is our business because well, they made it our business. So I don't, yeah, I don't think that anybody should feel guilty following this case and like really having questions because they chose to again, litigate this in the public eye.

They did.  That's we're reading what they've given us. And I think the overall to me, silver lining in all of this. Is that everybody, mostly, is talking about, like, what is appropriate, what is inappropriate. Right. Um, you know, that these kinds of behaviors are not okay if they took place. And that is a huge leap because I think it's Diveleg 3.

I went back and found, and this was before the lawsuits were filed. Right. I went back and found this interview that she did with Ben Affleck, and I recoiled. And I know it was a different time, like when the town came out, you know, yes, yeah, crime stopper. You figure it out like that whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, but when she did that movie, they did an interview together. I think she was like 22 or 23 so young and he was like mid to late 30s. Yeah. And he's talking about her first day on set, that it was their sex scene. Yeah. And if you've seen The Town, like you know their sex scene. Yeah. And he said that she was more mature than the guys on set.

And I read that, and I said, what did you just say? Yeah. Like, that's horrible. That is horrible. That's Ben Affleck. And that's, you know, 12 years ago, whenever that was. Yes. So, and it's been interesting, I guess  part of where I get frustrated with,  I get frustrated with Justin largely because some of the most egregious things with the exception of,  um, the slow dance scene or whatever, but we still don't even have enough context for that, but whatever, uh,  is, is him not specifically addressing.

The sexual harassment. He seems to have a pretty good case for he didn't participate in the smear campaign. In my opinion, whenever I see him coming out with the smear campaign stuff, I'm like, yeah, I don't think she was smeared. That's just my opinion. Yeah, my lingering question on that is what the hell did Jed do?

That's my, that's the dark cave that we can't know what, until we know. Like, what did Jed really do? What was he doing? Because there are two things. What's the one thing, sorry to interrupt you, but there's the one thing that I fixate on. Okay. I remember now it was an exchange. This was my part 14. That's why, cause it's new.

It's from the amended lawsuit. Right. It's a back and forth between, uh, Justin and.  And, um, the woman who's his PR person, Jen, no, Melissa, Nathan, maybe Melissa. Yes. And he's saying, Hey, Steve, as in Steve Sorowitz, the billionaire backer, Steve was talking about how, you know, in something Ryan commented on about how he needed to help out with this movie.

Uh, can we make it seem so that, and it was Steve's suggestion, make it seem so that Ryan had an issue with the editor or the writer being a woman and the writer being a feminist who couldn't write women. Right.  I was like, well, yeah, this is, I'm looking at right now in front of my eyeballs, like two men weaponizing feminism.

Yes. How, how can that be denied that those two right there, it doesn't, I'm sure they hated, you know, Ryan Reynolds at the time, like he had written this scene, they didn't know about it, they'd taken over the movie, they'd done maximum effort, promo stuff without him, so I get emotions were probably very high.

Right. But. That right there. I was like, all right, that's the first thing I've seen that kind of goes against the entire we're innocent. We never tried to do anything. We never tried to, you know, spin or warp anything you were doing. Whether or not they actually did that is a different is a different question.

Right. But the fact that they had that conversation.  I, I took note of that. I was like, wow. Right. To me, that was more,  that had more weight to it than say in the early, in the early days when Justin, when the texts were leaked that he said,  look at how they did Haley Baldwin. We need to do something like that.

Like that one's always confused me. I have read that over and over. And I'm like, what is he trying to say exactly?  It's just odd. I think,  I mean, I always took it as him saying.  I, I don't, I don't know why, Justin, you don't need to be involved in Gomez Nation, Selene Nader's, like, Hailey Baldwin, Justin Bieber stuff, just in general, like.

Yeah, because that whole world to me, I'm, I'm not plugged into it, and so I'm like, I've heard, you know, rumors that people don't like, you know, certain, uh, you know, young women celebrities, and they have beef with each other, and this woman's a bully, and this person's not, but maybe it's because I don't know everything about that, that I'm like, you want.

something like what you want something like make it seem like she's a mean girl bully like she does that for herself. She's doing it for herself. You don't need to do that. As does Haley, just to be clear, like Haley doesn't have the greatest, uh,  online, I'm not going to get into it. I will say this, if it makes you feel any better, the last like explosive drama that happened between Haley Bieber, Kylie Jenner and Selena Gomez that I believe he was referring to, um, happened three days before Scandal.

And so, that was overshadowed, I think for a lot of us, like it didn't, it didn't hit the same. Yeah. Um, so yes, I, that certainly, that certainly is a question that needs an answer. Um, as far as the smear campaign is, is concerned. Um, but for her, I think I've been a little frustrated just to be honest.

The, the lawyers are kind of  Speaking to the women of America of the world and saying like this shouldn't be happening to us like in our workplaces and sure, but some of the stuff like speaking for me, it's just a little disingenuous to pretend like porn isn't going to come up. Sex isn't going to come up that kind of stuff isn't going to ever come up  on a film set where you film sex scenes as opposed to like. 

You're someone's cubicle at DelWatt or MailChimp or whatever, you know, like, yeah, when porn came up at my job when I was the admin in a high school between adults, that was inappropriate, but like when porn comes up and you guys are filming a sex scene, it's a little muddier than that. And I just kind of. 

I kind of resent the framing from her team that it's all the same  when in context, sometimes it isn't the same. Now, obviously, if he was, like,  kissing her neck and Saying breathing on her face talking about that's so hot. It doesn't matter that you're filming a sexy  nuances. Exactly. Yeah. You know, like that's inappropriate no matter what, because there's still a standard of professionalism.

Um, but then saying that these like conversations are taking place, and it's just you're just offended that the conversation took place or you're uncomfortable that the conversation took place because it shouldn't happen in a workplace to me is just like a little different because it's like.  Yeah, but I don't film sex scenes at my job, you know, at the fish market.

So it's just different when it happens at my job  So those are some of the things that's been kind of frustrating me as far as the way that it's played out to the public What are some and I guess this is kind of a loaded question and we don't have a whole lot more time  For you covering this case so closely what are some of the Like outstanding questions you had, and I know you covered it a little bit in your episode about, um, with Justin and the Baha'i faith and things like that.

But what do you think,  what do you need answered, essentially? I, I cannot wait until we actually see some kind of footage of whether or not she was wearing, you know, the black shorts because the way that was described to us from her side is like, You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, it was really heart wrenching for me to read like, yeah, I'm, I'm out there.

I'm exposed. Nobody's offering you anything to cover up. It just seemed so awful and so ludicrous that that would even happen that that would be the, the environment, the,  the vibe on set that you wouldn't be looking out for the person that you're so excited to cast that you think is going to really boost this movie and you're not making sure that they feel all right.

And where the hell was the intimacy coordinator? I keep wanting these things like what scenes were they physically present for? How many meetings did they actually have with the two of them? Not just one person because his whole thing and this really pisses me off. Like there's so many things that piss me off about his side and her side.

But yeah, his side, you know, saying like, well, she said she didn't want to meet with them. That was one text. That was one time. How many meetings were there? How many meetings did she go to? How many meetings did he go to that she didn't go to? Was it only that one in the beginning? When, to me, he didn't make it clear that he was gonna go actually have a discussion about the work with this woman.

So she says, not right now, I'll talk to her when we start working. And then he goes and complains. To what's her name? Jen Abel saying she doesn't want to work with the intimacy coordinator. She's, you know, not going to meet with her. That was one time that was before they were actually working together.

So  things like that. I think the timeline is really important. I think hearing from the intimacy coordinator is going to be important. And I think, you know, maybe this will inform future productions that anyone has of like, hey, let's just go ahead and pay an intimacy coordinator to just be there. Yeah.

You know, just make sure everybody feels good. Yeah. I think, but see that,  that frustrates me as well because her not meeting, again, something I believe you said, like her not wanting to do like a preliminary meetup with the intimacy coordinator before filming started after she just gave birth, that doesn't, that doesn't make sense to me.

And if, and if there is some sort of. Reasoning for why that particular meeting was so important  context for that then provide that now what I  can't understand either though is neither side has given any  where the fuck was the where was she then they're not doing that, but they're like an airing of the grievances for both sides, but when it comes down to like, what are we actually talking about?

Why is this going to trial? You know, I don't think you can  it just seems like they should really be clearing things up that are pretty pivotal. Yeah, exactly Exactly. And as far as an intimacy coordinator is concerned, I mean from my understanding  It's very  this is I'm gonna get a little bit. I'm gonna theorize for a second  so I apologize, but to me It feels like, 

if there was not, there was a disorganization and level of chaos on, on this set, that I don't know if I can attribute it to I don't know what to attribute the chaos to the, the COVID, for example when, when she ended up, here's the thing, right? Like  this has happened to me twice now at two different jobs since COVID started where someone in power knew that someone else had COVID onset.

But they didn't want to shut things down, so they didn't tell everybody and then someone got COVID and it was an issue because that's an issue because you need to disclose that now. Do I have an understanding for why production? Wouldn't want to sure particularly if like the star of the film's husband is insisting that Dates be pushed and we're millions of dollars hundreds of thousands of dollars over budget and like one department alone and we have to do all of our fittings at her penthouse and like the the stealing the movie  Regardless, like the demands that they were meeting as a, as a film, as that was enlightening.

That was enlightening to see. That's wild. So did, can I believe that they didn't want to shut down production for whatever is required of them by the industry or union standards? Because one person that maybe Blake never came in contact with had COVID. Yeah, that was the part that stood out to me too, was finally was reading the amended lawsuit and seeing that from there, what they're saying.

That it was not a person who was in this fear that she interacted with that it was, yeah, there's tons of people who work on a movie set. If you ever watch the full credits of a movie, it's like, oh, yeah, hundreds and hundreds of people like boom operators and like those people would be close to.  But there are people who never cross paths with the talent.

So, like a background PA,  you're never going to see Blake. You're in a tent, you're never going to, you know. I think too, some of it is,  I have the advantage of having been,  I just went through a program, a three month program that teaches People how to be a PA on a union set because I live in Atlanta. So there's like a lot of oh, yeah  And they're kind of bored because the industry is kind of dead, right?

So they were like, let's offer a class so I took it and so I got a lot of  knowledge and  Insight into how a film is like made from like the assistant directors department Yeah view  and some of this stuff like I was saying it just sounds like  they like low key just weren't doing the stuff that's like You Necessary to do by Union standards.

And so when I'm asking questions, like, okay, fine. She told, okay, she told Sony, , that there was sexual harassment, but why didn't she report that to SAG? Like, that's who she would report it to. That's who she's supposed to report it to. Not, not to Sony.  Frankly, not even to Wayfair because again,  With the whole, like, trying to frame it, trying to present these things like they're your local DelWatt firm, like, it's not, that's not how a production office is structured, there's not an HR guy, there's not a Toby cubicle, you know what I'm saying, like, That's not how it works.

And she knows this. She's an actress. And so when she starts her complaint off like, well, I wasn't given a sexual harassment, you know, kind of like they didn't roll out the VHS TV, you know, and play me the video. Well, they shouldn't have to do that because you, you know, that you can go on the SAG after website.

There's a link that anybody can click with the standards that are That are supposed to be enforced by your union and you are allowed to collaborate with them and submit a sexual harassment complaint there on the site. Like, there's stuff that you can do now.  That doesn't mean again, it's this open ended thing of we don't know if she did or didn't, but it's like,  could we just find out?

Could you guys just let us know if she did actually report it? Yeah, I would hope that she would have. And this is a question I have too, because I remember seeing on her side. Um, a lot of things about this goes against this guild and that wasn't right for this guild. I'm like, right, there's a lot of guild stuff here that I don't get.

And I would love a movie, a seasoned movie person to weigh in. Like, uh, you know, if you drop me in the middle of the Oscars, I wouldn't want to talk about dresses people wearing. I'd be like, what do you think of the situation? And in these five different things, what. What's the right thing? What would the protocol have been?

Because  like the writer's guild, right? Yeah, and then Ryan Reynolds, did he or did he not? When did he start writing on the rooftop scene during the strike? He says before all that stuff, but then also the director's guild. So he's saying she encroached upon my golden ten days Did, why did he not raise that with the Director's Guild or did he?

And we haven't been told that yet because I went to the Director's Guild website and I read about it And it's like that's this precious time. You're not supposed to mess with it. Right. So are there protections or are there not? Why do they have these guilds if they're not going to, you know, enforce the protections and the things that they're supposed to get as being members of them?

Well, if I can, uh, Put on a tinfoil hat real quick. Sure. Part of me thinks that some of this stuff wasn't reported to the correct authority on the matter because there was stuff that was out of union compliance on set that was going on. Now,  it was out of union compliance, maybe because. They just needed to get the fucking film done, and they were shut down more than once because of the Writer's Guild strikes and things like this, and they were just ready to wrap it up.

And so I can see them trying to cut corners. It's very taboo to do that, though. Like, that is not The way that the industry looks at things like, um, what happened on the Rust set, a a at things like that are, like,  horrific to these p these people are very self involved, like not just the actors, like the directors, the second ADs, the production assistants, the script supervisors, like they, they take their work very, very, very seriously.

Um, and it's kind of laughable maybe to other, other people, but to them, it's like everything they think they're saving lives. And that's no shade. It's just because I know that I know that. If, if something was being  just the, again, I can't, I can't emphasize it enough. It seemed like it was stressful.

It definitely seemed like stressful and also with the strike and something else that I, you know, focused on too. It's like they were supposed to have a very short shooting schedule and then the strike hit. Yes. So then they needed to hit the ground running coming back. So for them to wait until the day that they.

We're going to come back and Jamie, he had been emailing that morning of like, Hey, everybody, we're gearing back up. You know, here's what we need. And here's what's going to be happening. And then by 2 p. m. Her lawyer sent an email saying not until you sign these 17 things, right? So,  I mean I we can't know maybe that was Completely organic and the way it was always gonna work and they were debating what to say and how they were gonna say it but right it a lot of things have happened that seemed like they were added on to pressure that already existed for an added sense of urgency and Yes.

Um, you know, dropping the lawsuit right before the holiday week on a very short turnaround time, like a Friday night, got to get back to people on a Saturday, um, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It certainly everything seems very intentional. Um,  And it's just like, what it, the intention is for what then?

Is it to  revolutionize  women's workplace issues all over the country? Is it to make you feel better, Blake? Is it to make you feel better, Justin? Because again, I'm sorry, I don't want to get a lot of hate for this, but like, when you talked about him weaponizing feminism with that, uh, exchange with Steve.

Mm hmm being willing to whether or not yeah, I'm being willing to and the same I felt the same about the Haley Baldwin thing like  he I don't know that it Is a core value of his to like be a feminist and I don't know that I need him to do that. I think that he has, um, takes it seriously and has a platform that he likes to use to, um, teach people and young men how to  be better.

I think I think he calls himself a feminist, but when I look at actually what he's doing and in his own word says he's trying to do, it seems to be, you know, reaching men and getting them to look at their. like toxic masculinity. Which to me is different because as I said, like in part 14, if he was a feminist, he wouldn't say X, Y, and Z.

And instead he would do like, A, B and C. But yeah,  I, yeah, I don't think you have to be  a huge fan of either one to be able to look at this situation and see that this is maybe why it has to go to trial because it's very difficult to know. What's really happened here with everybody being flawed and having their own ways of contributing to this thing negatively, like I said earlier, she is she is her own worst enemy.

She is the one who I think makes herself look like a mean girl more than any smear campaign could because I can understand not liking someone like I have had people who have sexually harassed me. But even if my, you know, husband did have like this big superhero anti superhero meta thing. I would say, Hey, don't put on a prosthetic nose and pretend to be him and have me shoot you to death.

Like, yeah, plural. Let's just not waste our time and money and energy on that. Right. So that, that just like goes so far across the line for me. And I think a lot of other people too, that it's difficult to then read an argument that says he did all this stuff to me. He's why the press, you know, was being rude to me.

He's why the people have a negative impression of me. And it's like, no. You have to be able to say, what did I do to contribute to that? Yeah. And I also would have preferred, this is just me personally, she's not obligated to do this, I just think in retrospect, maybe a better approach. Um,  I just think that she should have focused more on domestic violence. 

Because that's the entire movie show. Everything should have just been that like Justin shouldn't have had to feel like she was coming for him for him to start doing that. Like it should have just been that because when I watched last week, the Gabby Petito documentary about I haven't watched it yet.

I'm going to and I'm already dreading it. I know it's truly you're gonna like the rage is going to be like insane. Um, yeah.  And a lot of the rage that I came out of it with was, you know,  the shit. That goes on in this movie, by the way, is like kind of not a true represent of it ends with us. Oh, that's a whole nother ball of wax of like, what the hell is this book?

What the fuck? Yeah. Did you read the book? I did back in the day when it came out and I remember being like, the fuck? And then I was shocked that it was, you know, made into a movie and sorry for cursing. No, no, no. I mean, hello. It's totally fine. I, yeah, I will never.  I mean, fine, if that's your experience. To me, I think it's a little strange to assert that in a domestic violence situation, you just like, say, look at this baby.

See,  don't you want to not? You know, be abusive to her or anybody else. So that's why we're going to get a divorce. And then he just like calmly says you know what bet and then walks out. Like that's not usually how that happens in reality. Um, almost ever, I would pause it to say. So for me, the whole, the whole fucking thing.

It's ridiculous. And I think it's okay to say that. The nail polishes and the coloring book. Yeah, the coloring book!  Yeah. About the coloring book. Once I started learning about that, I don't even remember what dive that was. I was just like, I'm disgusted. I don't think this thing was like, Nobody can claim, in my opinion, of being like true of heart when it comes to you know, Making this thing dedicated to domestic violence, but I will say I did find it enlightening reading the amended stuff that he put out where, from the very beginning, the plan was to like Interact with local shelters, promote local shelters.

Great. What happened to that? Like, there's no, there's a missing piece there of why didn't that come to fruition? And is that on Sony? Cause again, I think Sony's getting away like pretty scot free. And they had a lot of say in this. Like they hired maximum effort to do these promotional videos. And you have Ryan out there with like his mom.

And the guy that played Atlas like doing these awkward things, but you're going to put money and time into that, but not into the contributing to local shelters and amplifying the actual issues. So I could go on for days about it, but there's a lot of things that don't make sense. No, for sure. I think Sony too.

And we're, we're, we're about done. But Sony, the impression that I get, which I cannot trust because I have not been able to trust my initial, exactly. The impression that I get is that Sony is financially really tied up in Ryan Reynolds. Um, and  they probably have had issues with him being a dick before.

, and  They probably  are inclined to believe Justin, but they can't do that. Like, they simply cannot, actually. And, and, and from the Ange, the Ange woman, now that you jogged my memory,  I mean, some of that stuff is, to me, just kind of seems like someone that wasn't there.  Like, who was there? Like, hearing from Ange is fine, but It just feels like nobody that was there and then the Taylor Swift of it all and like this thing that is so tough and then I gotta say this on TMZ.

Okay, sorry.  Get it out. Listen, they came up. They come on TMZ. TMZ does this story of. Blake Lively and Taylor Swift are distancing themselves from each other. Taylor doesn't want to be associated, doesn't appreciate being used as a pawn. But then if you actually listen to the full 17 CMZ segment,  they go on to say, well, Taylor says, well, she was there in the apartment, but she didn't say.

That Blake's cut was better. She just said she liked the movie and good luck on the movie. And you know, ultimately they'll probably still be fine is how the segment ends. And to me, that says to me, okay, this piece is not about Taylor and Blake are not friends. This piece is about how can we distance Taylor from this situation as much as possible?

Because if she does go to court,  probably does look like she had a significant amount of influence if she has some her hands in the composer her song being used like getting a song used in a movie is not  getting a tattoo approved on a film set is like in a lengthy extensive process so Taylor was not just, like, casually involved.

So stories like that, that are speculating on their friendship, are bullshit to me. Because they're still friends. They just can't say it publicly, because it now looks like Taylor was  Involved in this, like taking over the movie thing and it seems like, fuck, she was, I, I, I can't, like I can't with the Teyl and then Yeah, but, and then like, I have to have Taylor Swift didn't, I don't want that.

Yeah. It's, and it's difficult because you don't know. We can't know like, what did she think was happening? She's hearing it from somebody who is a close friend. She's like the godmother to one of their children and Right. She might think he's, she's trying to be supportive. Horrible. Yeah. And so we can't know what she was told.

Yeah, but it's enlightening to see Blake Lively call herself Khaleesi and Taylor's one of her dragons like you can't write this. This is not corny. So corny.  It's it's in line with her and her husband's brand of humor to be fair.  I just kind of hate everybody involved, honestly. That's how I walk away from most of the dives after I do them, like, I, this is horrible.

My God. Bravo, bravo, ducky, bravo. Thank you so, so much for coming on to talk to me about this. Now will you let people know where to find you and, and when your next installment's coming out, everything under the sun. Yeah, absolutely. Bravo, bravo, ducking, bravo across all platforms. I have a YouTube that I haven't given love to.

I need to.  Mostly potting these days. Instagram, TikTok, I'm enjoying as long as we have it, my precious. And then we do deep dives. We do, uh, voices, impersonations of the Real Housewives when we do recaps. And I'm tired, but I'm about to watch Beverly Hills and do that. And then book reviews, movie reviews, we do it all. 

Awesome. All right, guys. You heard her. So, go head over to all of her socials, give her a follow, check out her series. Listen to it from the beginning. Take a drive. It's really, honestly, it's so good. It's so great. Thank you so much. And I will talk to you guys later. Bye. Bye.