We Need to Talk About the (Vanderpump Rules) Fandom: Ft Molly McAleer!

In this episode of 'Who The Fuck Knows,' Emily Rose delves into the complexities of the Vanderpump Rules fandom with guest Molly McAleer. They discuss the series' evolution, focusing on the fandom's reaction to the 'Scandoval' cheating scandal and how it has impacted perceptions of various cast members, including Ariana, Raquel, and Katie. Molly shares personal anecdotes about her interactions with the cast and critiques the ways in which loyalty, projection, and the show's inherent drama shape fan opinions. They also touch on the challenges of maintaining authenticity in the reality TV genre and the potential impact on upcoming seasons. The episode concludes with a nod to the broader context of reality TV fandom and a tease for future content.

Transcript

  Hello, hello, hello. This is Who The Fuck Knows with Emily Rose. I'm Emily Rose, and today I will be doing part two discussion around the Valley Fandom. For my series, we need to talk about the Fandom. Fandom. Part one was with Rob Schulte of Vanderpump Robs. So check that out if you haven't already. But today my guess is actually in the Vanderpump Robs verse of Podcasting Creators, a true podcast legend in her own right, creator of the Trend, lightly network and host of shows such as Trend Lightly.

Mother, may I Sleep With, please advise and so much more. Please welcome Molly McAleer. Molly, how's it going? 

Hi babe. Thanks for having me. I, I am thrilled to be a part of the Rob Vanderpump Rob's universe as well as being here today. We met only briefly when Rob and I did a live show a couple years ago, but you were just so sweet and I was the world when you asked me to be a part of this discussion.

Yes. Guys, if you don't know, a couple of years ago for my birthday, I went out to la uh, Rob and Molly put on an incredible live show. It was so great. It was in, uh, local theater. Is that down? Is that considered downtown? Los Na No, that's not downtown. No, that's, um, in the mid, that's in the middle of Hollywood.

Middle of Hollywood baby. Yeah. Um, and it was so much fun. Um, Peter Madrigal from Vanderpump Rules was there. Meredith Lynch, who I love, was a, uh, uh, was a guest host for Molly's portion. I forgot your other friend's name, who was so my 

best friend, ed Hansen. 

Yeah. So fucking funny. And it was, it was a really great time.

Um, Rob recapped the. The episode of Vanderpump Rule season six, where Britney plays, uh, J's voice or Yeah, the recording that Faith had of Jax and him sleeping together. It's a whole thing. And we watched it and commented on it and it was so fun. It was such a great show and I'm just so appreciative that you even had my stupid ass on the show, so thank you.

Oh yeah. 

Duh. It was so much fun and like, wow, what a wild journey that was that night with, um, Peter and Oh my God, Peter and everything else. Like I know, first of all, I, um, with all with peace, love, respect and unity to Vander Po Recaps, I had no idea that a picture of me was gonna be posted on Reddit, which for some reason I think is the scariest thing that can happen to a person.

I'm so intrigued by the individuals who post pictures of their face to like any Reddit. 'cause I just. For a website I use a lot. I'm kind of scared of it, but I think I was like rubbing Peter's back because I think that Peter was on a journey that night and like we were lucky to witness it. 

Peter was definitely, um, marching to the beat of his own drum and it was, he was still very participatory, don't get me wrong.

It was great. And I think Rob has that episode on his Patreon, so you guys should listen to Vanderpump Robs for that, but it was, yeah, he's very funny. I am, so I've never posted a picture of myself on Reddit. Uh, I'm not quite to that, to that point, but I had a Reddit in like 2012 or something like that account, and I don't know what happened to that account, but it disappeared and so I remade one, I think in like 2019 with my Instagram username.

Okay. As my Reddit handle. Yeah. And so I was like, it took me a while to realize like, oh no, the whole point is to be anonymous. But I kind of always was like, say it with your chest, like live in your own truth. Like say what you need to say. Like what are you gonna do? No, I respect 

that. No, my, um, but now I'm like, significant other is first name, last name on Reddit.

Like he goes, fuck full legal name on Reddit. And I'm like, all right. But, um, typically it's like more work adjacent stuff that he's posting under. But I, I do, I feel like Reddit encourages a lurker type society. Right. But then there's people who are out of their fucking mind and post their picture on like our Roast me.

But I do like what you're saying about like, yeah. And if you don't like this comment, like, come track me down. Yeah. I think also, you know, that is, it keeps you honest, right? Because then you're never gonna write anything that is beyond reproach. And I, even though I, I think my Reddit is probably undetectable, I do try to only write things that if someone were to come up to me in person and say like, did you write that on Reddit?

I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and what? Yeah. And I think more people should live with that fear. If I'm gonna be honest, I don't really love the, an anonymity element of it, because I think that's where, and this is what I think partially what we speaking about in this episode. Yeah. Um, you see people, uh, really put their shit out there and onto the ca members of the cast of these shows and yes.

It's like, like, oh my 

God. Get a grip sometimes. No, it, it really is, it's um, the projection is real. The, um, self accountability that you have when you think someone you know, knows who you are. 'cause then I ended up, I did end up making like another account that is not attached to my name, um, for, for work purposes.

And, and then sometimes I'll like hop over there if I want to get, like, if I wanna go in the spaces that are, if I wanna go in like the streaming and like that world of Reddit, I don't want my name attached to it 'cause they're really fucking scary. And, and that's saying something. 'cause Vanderpump Rule sub Redd, it's real scary.

So, um, but yeah, I think I, I think that's just kind of what. What you gotta do is check yourself before you get on the internet talking crazy. 'cause it, and then it creates a hive mind. We'll get into it, but, you know, someone can post anything. And I think part of the problem now with the culture of Reddit being anonymous, it it, it's susceptible to, I mean, if you wanna say bots are probably real people that are just trying to like, feel some shit out.

Maybe they work for somebody or maybe they don't, maybe they just have a penant for drama. Yeah. I mean I think there's 

like a whole different, there's like two dis like two or three discussions in what you just said between like bots and then I think people sort of compulsively repeating a narrative that they've heard somewhere else.

Yes. And not really thinking about the implications of that narrative. And um, I've noticed in particular with like the Vanderpump rules, right? Because there were a few times during scan of all where. You know, when I say this is someone who has met every person involved in that and really, really is partial to Ariana.

There's been a couple times on there where I've said under my Anon account, like, let's pump the brakes on this a little bit here. Like, yeah, what if, you know, what if we consider this and that? And like also that this person's actually a, a person or whatever. Yeah. Um, down voted to hell because it's just, that is not the popular narrative.

Like you're not allowed to, I don't know, suggest that Raquel doesn't offer So for something, you know? Yeah. And it's, um, yeah, that was such a heated, crazy time to be, oh my 

God, 

a, a Bravo viewer, but then someone who tries to occasionally, uh, engage in online spaces about Bravo. 

Well, I'm actually, I'm so glad that you said that because my next thing that I wanted to kind of get the audience a little familiar with you because, you know, we, we will talk about the Valley in a bit, but it would be a disservice not to speak primarily about Vanderpump rules because you, uh, you've lived in LA for a long time.

You have crossed paths if not met, or maybe even socially been around these people, the cast of Vanderpump Rules. And I was wondering if you could, as a fan who has watched the show, talked about the show for years, can you just kind of lay down the framework of what your relationship is, uh, to the, to the Vander verse?

Uh, sure. So I just started watching the show like everyone else. I think my mom was the one who called me and said like, you really should, because I was super turned off by the, the segue from RA's Beverly Hills and into Vanderpump Rules. And, you know, I, since I don't really watch. Much Bravo except for Vanderpump.

Mm-hmm. Um, I don't know if I'll watch the new season, but I think it was my mom who called me and said like, this Vanderpump rules thing is like really good. Yeah. It's really crazy. Wow. And so, um, I think it was towards the end of season one, I, I just did a quick binge watch and I was like, holy shit, this show's next level.

Yeah. Um, and then, um, I think maybe toward the end of season two, or right as season three was beginning, I was on what was then known as the Pumped podcast, which was, uh, LA Laura Marie Shane Hall's podcast. I think now she's up, but that was before, 

had that breakup. That's when Craig was the co-host. Right, 

sure.

Yeah. And, um, and I tweeted like, I'm watching Vanderpump Rules and. I'll, or like, I'm podcasting about Vanderpump Rules with like, at Lars Marie. And then, uh, Ariana Maddox tweeted back at me and was like, what are you talking about? And I was like, I was like, guys, Ariana just tweeted at me. Yeah. And so, um, I, I think I shot her a DM and she was like, Moz, I used to read your Tumblr when I was in college.

And I was like, no way. So I think like the next week or something, uh, Ariana and Tom came to the recording and like they recorded with us and through Ariana, I, I met, uh, pretty much the entire cast. I also like bullied Stassi into having dinner with me one time because, um, I, I just kept like tweeting at her like, like Stassi, like, come hang out with me or whatever, whatever.

And, um. It was around the time that she was with Patrick. And Patrick went to school with my boss, one of my old boss's brothers, and my old boss's brother was like a big, like follower of mine for, he like, you know, became a fan through me working with his brother. And, um, I was able to bully Stassi into going to dinner with me, which was, uh, nice.

It was nice for the shoe to be on the other foot, but she was absolutely lovely. Was she with 

me? 

Yeah, Stasi ISS great. She's great. Okay. Like I have been nicest time with her and it felt so normal. Yeah. Um, and then that was also around probably like season three. Yeah. Um, and I don't know if, I think Kristen might be the only one that I've never met.

Really? 

Yeah. 

Inter uh, do you know what, why, why is that? That's so interesting 

because I think when I was around. Tom and Ariana around that time. Oh, right. They were, she was really, 

yeah. She 

wasn't in the mix, but I'm actually like, in a couple scenes. I got two, two years in a row. I was at Ariana's birthday.

Um, I was in at her queen birthday, and then I was at the, the third birthday. A k Was 

that the bouncy ha like the circus? Mm-hmm. Was that fun? Can you tell me, was that fun? It looked really like fun. 

It 

was fun. 

I mean, like, it's definitely filming, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's, it's a different mode a little bit when they're filming.

Um, because like, and you wouldn't even really notice it if you, you're there like, and then it's sort of like, oh, like Tom and Katie are having a discussion by the pool. And like, but you didn't even, you wouldn't even notice that that's what's happening. Right, 

right. Um, 

and you're just sort of like milling around.

And so, um. You know, it, it was like totally, it was a totally normal afternoon backyard party. And, uh, yeah, there was multiple people there that I knew at both by the time, like, you know, we went to the birthday parties, like my best friend Ed, who you were talking about earlier. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. Love him. 

Um, Ariana had met him somewhere else, but she also knew of him from my blog.

So like, it was a very natural thing. So like, when we would go to those social things, like I, I would have like my friends that I knew there independently there, so we would just hang out and do that. 

So I, I think that that's, that's really important. And, and you touched on it a little bit earlier about, you know, remembering the human when you're having online discussions, uh, you know, or even discussions in like content creation spaces of remembering that these are real people, but I've seen.

There's certainly been some creators that I have followed throughout the years because I do believe that for the most part, at least until up until like maybe, I don't know, season eight-ish, I feel like these people were pretty much, especially when you knew them, their authentic as they could be selves considering there's a fucking production happening.

Yeah. Um, so you can't be completely, well back 

then they weren't famous. Famous, like, right. I wanna like, also land this. Is that like during that time. Like if you were on Bravo, like you were a freak. Yeah, like, like anyone who did reality television was always like, Hmm. Like I wonder what they're like. And Ariana like classically like was always the most normal person on Bravo.

Like that's so I was like, oh, it's like so interesting that this like really normal, grounded chick is like around these sort of, I don't know, like lunatic people. Yeah. And by lunatic people, I mean like people that came to LA because they wanted a real shot at Hollywood. Right. And then like, we're sort of like, I don't know if this is gonna happen, so like maybe I'll do this thing.

That used to be such a curse. Like if you went on reality tv, you probably weren't gonna have like an acting career or something like that, you know? So it was very much like, I. Bravo was very much, uh, it transitioned quite a bit over that time from Yeah. You know, sort of like, who are these people and why would they do this to like, oh, this is a kind of a regular, this is like kind of a mainstream celebrity, almost like a Bravo celebrity.

But, um, and, and you know, with the Housewives and stuff now it's like, there's like more normal people, but also same like there's, you could say the same thing about the Housewives is like, what? They all have in common is that they all want the one thing money cannot buy, which is fame. 

Yeah. 

And that's a very strange thing to want.

Yeah. Like if you have all this protection and safety with your money, if you live like a, you know, if you are travel in certain circles and are certain part of society, like you might not need necessarily mainstream recognition. You might not want the public to know you. Right. Because you already have all the money and like all the other great things, but they want that fame factor, which I mean, I think, you know, makes them in many ways a classical freak.

Like 

Yes, yes. You know, 

like there's a, a 

certain that certain, sorry. Yeah. No, there's a certain type of, especially now I would say you have to be a really certain type of chaotic, um, in, in your, in your soul to. Want to, to kind of compromise all of these things that you're talking about, right? The security, the privacy.

And what I think is interesting about what you're saying is that had I, not, which I, I have listened to pumped, um, in, in my opinion, uh, that that podcast, and this is as a viewer, I don't know these people, this is bordering on Parasocial, um, Laura, you know, had the opportunity to really kind of ride the wave of these people and like kind of get in that inner circle.

And there are other creators not just in that, not just in that like group, but other more current creators that maybe cover a variety of topics now that, uh, were really charmed by these people and kind of wanted their own fame from. The proximity to the Vanderpump rules. Do you see? Do you, are you picking up what I'm putting down?

Yeah, I am. And I think that there's, I think there's people who are drawn to talk about this stuff because the opportunity of notoriety comes with it and like they've always been in it for themselves. I, one thing I respect about Laura is that like. I don't think it was ever her mission to go IRL with these people.

And like that's sort of more how I refer to it. And like going IRL go, IRL. I 

love that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 'cause 

it's hard, like the things that you wanna say, you can't say them once you know these people. And so there's lots of things where, you know, whether it be like true crime cases that I've followed or whether it be like I'm really enjoying a drama show or, um, even sometimes when I've struggled with this, when I talk about lifetime movies on Mother May Super podcast, like people reach out to me and there's some people that like I've had on the show because like I can tell they're down to clown and they listen to the show and they get it.

Yeah. Um, but like there's definitely a certain set of people that I wouldn't want on the show, or like, if I am, I'm like talking about a true crime case. I've had people reach out to me and say like. Oh, I actually know the family and then I'm like, oh, well, you know, thank you so much for reaching out. Like, I'm hap you know, I'm glad I'm talking, but I don't wanna know.

I like, you know, I, I like not to be heartless, like, no, but I'm trying to talk about something in a very UURL way. Yeah. And not an IRL way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you wanna be, you wanna online, 

part of your art, part of, uh, your creative expression is, is commenting on something you're watching. Right? It's not sure being a part of it.

And you are also trying to express that with the hopes that you connect with other people on it, and that people enjoy it. And that people, you know, you like build your own community in a way. And when you get too close to your subject. As it were, you, your perspective is gonna shift. Um, that's why I think it's really awesome.

And, and interesting that you say, you know, Ariana, it sounds like you're essentially saying that she was pretty much of, of all of them who she was off camera was very similar to who she, who we see on camera. 

Yeah. Like she's very real and like, I'll, I'll just say this too, and, and I feel comfortable saying this now, especially 'cause they're not together, but like, um, but like I al I always thought Tom was weird and like he was kind of a strange person in real life as well.

Like there's something, and like, same with, uh, Jax, who I never knew. Um, I never spent time with him, but like, and I'll, and I'll also say Tom Sandoval. All of the things positive that people say about him. Yeah. He is extraordinarily generous. Yeah. Like he's is very, can very much be a good time, but like, you know, um, in my opinion was never as smart as Ariana.

Like never No. Was someone that I was just sort of like, oh, these are like not intellectual equals, and I don't if I could do that. Yeah. Because like she's someone like I would hang out with like you. Yeah. Um, where it's like with Tom, you're always sort of like, ooh, like what is this? Like this is so interesting that you're, you're here and you're like that.

Yeah. And um, and so, and it, but it's just, I think in some ways like. There's plenty of people in LA that you would never be friends with, especially like in the acting world. Like I, I come more from like the comedy world, right? Right. And there's people that are like serious actors and it's like, um, you know, I have a couple that I'm friends with, but like, that did, like soaps and stuff like that.

And so they like do take their craft pretty seriously, but like, they're actory and like I would say that like that's the case with like, someone like Tommy's more like Actory than he is. Yes. Like Ariana, who takes sketch comedy very seriously. She does, you know, like she gets, she kind of gets it like she has a good sense of humor and I just don't know that Tom, like, for example, has that same sense of humor of about himself.

And so it would get weird. It was always just weird to like kind of be like, you know, like are on the joke about your show or not. 'cause like the joke is obviously that you guys are all weird, right? Right. I say that as a person who's all like, I'm also like strange. But I mean like it's a very specific brand, don't you?

It think of like, 

oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to articulate this to my coworker the other day. I work at a restaurant now and I work in the heart of Atlanta. And, uh, we do have the, where I, where I work in the area that I work in, we have had people come in and they do, like, actors do this thing where like, especially men where like, I can tell they're not, like, some people just wanna be recognized.

Like obviously there's people like that, but then there's like the actors in Atlanta that like, they don't want you to know that they're famous, but they present themselves in a way that's like very bizarre. Like, yeah, people don't speak the way that they do, and it's like they are like undercover for themselves in a way that's like, bitch, I can tell you're on Will Trent.

Like, what? I don't, I don't care. Like, it's, 

it's like, it's so, I'm so glad you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Because like whenever people ask me like, oh, what's like, you know, what are, what are actors like, I'm like, like odd. Again, I think I'm lacking the vocabulary outside of just. Like a little, they're just like a little strange.

Like they're just a little, little strange, just a little touched, you know, like, because it's this like the sort of vibe of like, you know, like, like it's, it's just surreal. Yeah. And it's not even that I'd say that. Like, I think that it, it also comes from a place of deep insecurity. Yeah. But like, it's this sort of like faux sincerity and when you're interacting with it, you're like, this isn't real.

Yeah. And like, that's also po possibly like my neurodivergence coming through where it's like, I can't really spot what is different about this person. I can't really name the exact thing, but like, when, when you're interacting with it, in my experience, whether it be like a legitimately famous actor or someone who just like has high hopes for themselves or fancies themself to be an actor, an entertainer, you're just sort of like, what is this?

Yeah. 

It's, it's, and I can see that especially in like. In Tom Sandoval in like, kind of like, I, I would assume maybe like Billy Lee would maybe be like that a little bit. 

I think Billy's kind of, I, my experiences with Billy is that she's very normal. She is normal. Okay, good. But I, well like closer to normal than, but I would say the most surreal person you'll ever meet in your life to the point where you're like, it's like interacting with, I don't know, like a cursed Muppet is like Absolutely.

Jack Taylor. Like he is Yes. Such an acid trip of a human being because like, he's so theatrical. Yes. And like, so like when we were at that like, uh, 3-year-old birthday, 30-year-old birthday that Ariana had. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't know how to better. Child's birthday that she had. Um, Jack's like, came in the kitchen.

There was no cameras, and it was just, I think it was me, Laura, my friend Ed, and like, I think that's it. 

Yeah. 

And like Jax had just done like maybe that boxing thing where they were in like some sort of bouncy house or something, and they were all like boxing. Oh, 

yeah, yeah, yeah. 

And he came in and was like grabbing his crotch.

He's like, oh, oh. Like, he's like, uh, my God. And he's doing like this thing and we're like, what's going on? And he's like. Like my nuts are like, totally got like stuck. Like, oh. He's like, it's just like it's, it was too big for that outfit. And like, he like literally is like lays down on the kitchen floor, like dramatically grabbing his nuts.

And the way that I've never seen a man grab his nuts. I've never seen a man grab his nuts like that. And like, he's making like these very like, oh, ah, ah, like very, like even bizarre for like ouch, I hurting type reasons. Yeah, yeah. 

Like he's putting on a show. 

Yeah. And, and it was like we were all standing there like.

What am I looking at? Like, I've never seen anything like it. And the three of us just like looked at each other and we were like, are are you good? Like, are you seeing this as well? Because it was, um, it was like not humanoid, like it was, it was like alien pretending to be a guy whose dick was too big for the rubber boxing suit that he was just wearing.

It was so crazy. And um, like, definitely like a memory that's frozen in my mind and will always be there. But like, and, but also it's like truly the prototype of this is what, this is what sort of strange fake behavior. Can look like from a person like that. Like it was so it was next level, so. 

Great. That is, I'm, I'm picturing it because I, we, me and Lindsay met Jax when we came to la 'cause we went to Jax and he was there and like, I think you're just describing it perfectly.

It was like this, he was talking to us. I was asking him whatever the hell I wanted to, I I think he was high. Yeah, I'm sure he, I'm, I'm pretty sure he was on, on blow and, and like, it, it was just like, sorry, slammed door. Um, it, it was just like, it was almost like he didn't even, it didn't really matter who was in front of him.

He would just be talking. It didn't really matter if like, what, what anyone was asking. Like he wasn't very, like, he wasn't really calculated, which I assume someone would be in his situation. Um, it was just kind of like. No, no sense 

of like situational appropriateness. 

Exactly, exactly. 

Yeah. 

And, and I, I was just like, okay, I mean, like, I got some tea, so I was like, that's great.

Um, good. But I was also kind of afraid of him. He was kind of scary. I was like, well, I don't wanna be around you anymore. 

That's the element of it that, I mean, where it does feel out of control because we know what it's like to interact with most types of people, right? Yes. And like, I think we've all even dealt with people that have personality problems and like one, uh, thing about a lot of them is that they can kind of like swim socially or whatever.

Like yes, I could argue that Jacks cannot swim socially, like Right. He, and it's, so that's what's always feels so unbelievable about the idea of like how far he's gotten with it and like how many, yeah. I don't blame any of the women who have fallen for him. Um, because I'm sure that's a potent experience to be on the other end of, but like, um, there was something so red flag about all of it.

Yeah. And like, again, surreal. And you're like, that's human. That person's human shaped. They're saying human words. Like, they're like pantomime and mimicking human emotion. Yeah. But like, there's not nothing there. 

Nothing there. Yeah. I guess I just haven't, and I, I don't, and I don't mean this lightly. I, I've met, I've had lots of friends with, you know, different diagnoses and things like that, but I don't know that I've ever actually met like someone who would come close to my understanding of like what a sociopath is like.

And I don't, I don't do that. I don't diagnose people. I'm not, I don't know if he has a narcissistic personality disorder child. I don't know. But he, he was like, he was up there in like, yeah, that inability to like connect on a human level with anyone I observed him speaking to that he knew or didn't. Um, it was, it was really bizarre.

Um, 

well, I think most people who might fall into some of the categories that he might fall into for the sake of getting not just what they want, but like for survival, have learned how to adapt. Yeah. And I would say that Jack's maybe just through his like extended prolonged adolescence that he's experienced and sort of, um.

Like the praise that's been heaped on him for being like a good looking guy or whatever else. Um, I think that he never had to learn those skills. Um, and for the last, I don't know, 15 years or so, he's been handsomely rewarded for not adapting 

well and in those ways. Well, and, and his job for the past 15 years has been one.

I mean's what I mean, yeah. If you're, if you're someone who has, you know, really great, you know, you just have an inclination towards tech and then you go into a field that is tech driven rather than like, I don't know, fucking being a waiter, you're, you're gonna build that skill. And he literally built the skill of like absolving reality.

Because he like song, you know, that is such 

a good point, is that if Jax had picked a different area of interest or if he'd been more inclined to go into tech, like. He's sort of performing the experience of being a human right. Um, you can, you can get away with that in tech. You can get away with that in sales. You can get away with that in business, but like in, when you're in the business of, of being a professional, real person.

Like on a reality TV show. Yeah. Um, and these people are forced to interact with you over years. Like, you know, um, like he, he managed to make it work for him, but then, you know, you put him on the ground, you put him at Jackson's bar, and I didn't ever go to that bar, but, um, I've met him, I've met him enough times that like, um, and had enough conversations with him that I kind of can imagine exactly how that was.

Um, yeah. Yeah. Even though I think like when you met him, like, that's pretty late stage. Yeah. No, we, 

yeah, it was really advanced. It was really advanced. Uh, and well, I, I won't get into it. Um, me and Lindsay have an episode. If, if anyone's listening is interested, we go into the, the nitty gritty on that. But, uh, just suffice it to say he was an advanced stage, uh, reality star.

Um, yeah. 

Well, that's one thing I do like about these people is like, there's no venue that is beneath them. Yeah. Like I, and that's a good thing, I think, like you can really find, find these people at some of the s slimiest places in LA like, oh yeah. These are not, these are not so house individuals. You'll find them in the valley.

Yeah. Uh, we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. Okay. So speaking of late stage Vanderpump rule stars, um, I wanna get into a, I wanna hear what you think about kind of pre and post scan of all fandom, because there was a, there were a few narratives that I felt were pretty consistent.

Before Scan Deval. And then there seemed to be a market change after Scan Deval about how people felt about the show, felt about the cast members. And then there seemed to be a real, in my opinion, uptick of projection of assumption. And in some ways we talked about forgetting the human in a negative way, but in some ways I would say kind of projecting a superhuman persona onto certain people.

Um. Immediately after it, it was found out that Tom had cheated. Yeah, I was gonna 

ask you what you meant, like post scan all 'cause in some ways I feel like it's still going on. Like if it depends on who you ask till current time. Yeah. If you ask the, uh, Vander poem rules Reddit, it's going, it's, it's still on and it's staying on, and I'm not often on that Reddit, but through, you know, I do a weekly podcast with Rob called Hazy.

Right. And, um, you know, I, I just adore Rob and I love getting to talk to him and want, like, you know, he's kind of one of the people that I go to if I see, yeah. If I see like a VPR person, like a someone talking about it online, I always am like, Rob, what do you think of this? You're like, look this person or whatever.

Um, and he's just a really, like, he's a really good touchstone for that. Yeah. So he is, he mentions the Reddit and I'll go check it out when he does. And I. Like, it's a nightmare. 

Yeah. It's, I, yeah. So I, I, in order before this episode, I kind of listened to some of you and Rob's episodes that you'd done on season 11 of Vanderpump Rules and, uh, also watched some of your tiktoks and, and follow Molly on TikTok.

'cause she's got a lot to say and she has a lot of really, really interesting content across the board. Even if you're not a reality TV fan. I'm kind of 

addicted to battling now. I don't, I, uh, it's like I am always entering a new phase, by the way though. Yes. Wait, you, I don't know what you were gonna say, but I just remembered you liked a video that I made when it came out?

Yes. Yes. That Sheena Yes. Uh, was sharing that Brock had cheated on her. Mm-hmm. When. There was, um, like when she was putting out her book. Yes. So, and I made a video be like saying like, Sheena has never done anything to any of you. Yeah. Like, you know, chill out. Sorry, go ahead. 

No, no, no, no, no. You're, you're, you're getting at what I was gonna get at because part of this narrative shift is what I'll call it.

And, and to be fair, people always had kind of dissenting opinions about Sheena. Sheena was never like a fan favorite. I would say that's mostly because of, uh, Stassy more than anything. Um, people so strongly identified or liked Stassy, um, probably more than anyone else on the cast. And Stassi hates Sheena, and, uh, I don't know if that's, does she still, I mean, they, I think she comments on her like Instagram and stuff, but I don't know if that's like.

Just based, I mean, after a while you watch someone treat another person a certain way and hear what they say about them for years, whether it's real or not, I can't imagine they're like besties. 

I, I'll say this, I feel that Stassi has no obligation to anyone. So if she is commenting on Sheena's Instagram photos right now, like I think that they're genuinely on good terms.

However, yes, this, this tone of this show was set by, you know, there's this girl that works at VAB Blanca who also works at Sir and all of the other girls hate her because she's a homewrecker. Yep. And I think, you know, with maybe, I don't know, I guess you could say that Katie's never had that title, nor has Stassi.

Um, but. They've all, they all sit with home records on that show. Yeah. If that's the word we're gonna use. Yeah. And so, you know, this also this, just like bald insecurity they had with her was wild to me at the time because, you know. Well, you're all friends with a bunch of cheaters, like you date cheaters.

Like yeah, this projection on Sheena for having an affair where like, no, we weren't having conversations about power imbalances back then. Um, no. Uh, like everyone absolutely has always needed to lay the fuck off Sheena Shea for the Eddie Sion thing. Like, always like, are you kidding? If this had happened now that that first season of Vanderpump rules would've been perceived completely differently, absolutely be like, why are all these girls like freaking the fuck out on this girl that was taken advantage of?

She believed the sweet nothings of a, uh, sea list actor who was kind of promising her the world. And we all know that. Um, the, you know, no, I'm divorcing my wife. I mean, how many women have fallen for that? You know, like, yeah. Uh, I have no. Like, Hmm. And I will say this, it just really as an aside regarding Sandoval Sandoval and regarding, regarding all of this, as like, unfortunately when you boil it down outside of the portrayal that happened between their relationship, like and, and how much the American public was invested in it, and like all the little different pieces that we believe we know about what that relationship was like positively.

Yeah. At the end of the day, it is a classic American cheating scandal. Yeah. Like, and that's what I always was trying to get across to people. I'm like, this is, this is the foundation of America is like affairs. Yeah. And like it's upsetting, but like, are these novel things? No. Is it a novel thing? No, no, no, no, no.

But is it novel even within this show? No. No. It is the baseline of this show. 

Yeah. 

And um, you know, I think that what Tom did was absolutely atrocious. I do think ultimately it was the best thing for all parties involved. And absolutely when it comes to machin sha like I always say that like people have given her so much shit for saying like, I think Tom is more upset about losing me as a friend than he is about his relationship ending.

And I 

think he is dead ass. Of course he's, 

yes. Like of course he's like, Sheena was his fucking dog for years. Like, they were holies and like, uh, you know, Ariana was someone that he had already discarded, you know, was he was done with her. 

Mm-hmm. Which arguably makes, and this is why that narrative, that that line of thought, that like Sheena, so there's also like a theme here of loyalty, right?

That was a theme since the beginning. Uh, Sheena not being, you know, loyal to Brandy, who she didn't know and like on and on and on. This theme of loyalty and then Stassi big thing for years with her group of friends, not just Sheena, but everyone who went in her orbit was loyalty, right? And I think that fans have a really warped perception of what loyalty would mean if you were really gonna project, if you were really gonna like, compare your personal relationships to the people on this show.

It's not a one-to-one unless you also work with your friends and you also are incentivized to maintain a relationship, positive or negative within that friend group at at work. And you, you date within that group. It's, you really have to put it into that perspective. And you can't put these like arbitrary things like.

Loyalty and like stupid shit that women say now that is designed to tear women apart, like girl's girl, and pick me. Like that stuff is like, it doesn't mean anything. You're a bunch of losers. Like I think, 

I mean like I do think there is such a thing as being a girl's girl, but I think to me what a being a girl's girl is would've been believing Sheena Yes.

To begin with. Like that's, that's a girl's, girl's girl. Yeah, 

a girl's girl. And this isn't casting any kind of like Ariana has the right to feel however she wants about what happened between Raquel and Tom. But like a girl's girl would make a point, in my opinion, to, she may, she may hate Raquel, but make a point to make sure that the bulk of the hatred is directed at Tom Sandoval.

Now she may have done that. I don't know because I don't know her in her personal life. The problem is that the fandom, because they had gotten so comfortable, like with these people projected onto, in my opinion, they projected onto Raquel, they projected onto Ariana and onto Sheena and on la blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. And like with this, like, do you know what I'm talking about when I'm saying like the Lord mindset? No, I say, I 

mean, listen, I'm on board with all of this and like the, the thing is, is that, as I said, like, you know, it's a classic American thing. This cheating in like of course it's worldwide, right?

Like, but I like, you know, everyone, it touches so many lives that everyone thinks they. They can identify with a person in any scenario. Mm-hmm. Um, and like the fewest amount of people are going to openly admit that they relate to Raquel or um, Sheena in the Eddie situation. And I've never been like the other woman.

Um, but like, well I have, 

and I've talked about it and I've talked about it on this podcast, and I have to say like, you gotta let people learn from their fucking mistakes. And some of the shit that I saw post Sandoval and granted and like, it doesn't matter, but like I was like 19 and then 22 in the circumstances that I was the other woman.

Yeah. 

Um, I was fucking stupid and selfish. And in one situation I did know the other person and one situation was almost. Really, really fucking similar to Ariana and, and Tom and the other situation. I didn't know who the fuck the, I didn't know the girl. I didn't even know yet. You know what I'm saying?

And I've talked about this and like, yeah, you, you grow, you learn. 

You do. And also, here's, here's what I can say is that while I've never knowingly been the other woman, I have realized after the fact that I was sort of a conduit Yeah. For a person's, like, I thought we were friends. 

Yeah. 

And then it turned out that like, oh, I was like, I was like 

stepping in.

Oh, I, I was a, I was a way to go as like hanging out with me was like a way to go escape. The situation you were unhappy with. And I'm sitting here like, do, do, do like thinking. Like I have a thinking, I have a friend, and then like meanwhile I'm like, oh, wait a minute. No. Oh God no. Like, yeah, like, uh, like the worst thing that could happen to me would be if you left your, you know, situation to like, uh, pursue something with, especially 'cause I'm not interested, like Right.

But like that's, it also is like people misrepresent themselves and these things can be very slippery. And I think that that's definitely what happened with Raquel to an extent. Um, oh yeah. 'cause you know, it, and she, I thought, you know, it was so easy to empathize with the way that she came forward and, you know, in that final reunion clip when she said like, no, we have been hooking up for longer.

Like, I'm so ashamed. Like I felt like he really manipulated me. Like, I don't know, after having seen Tom do that, especially too, you know, and I, and I don't say this mockingly, but I say this to like clock the audience in Queen Ariana. 

Yeah. Like 

he did the same thing to her. So it's like, you know, you really have to recognize, and I, and I also do not wanna villainize Ariana because Hello.

We saw how fucking disgustingly codependent Tom and Kristen were. Yes. Like, like, I mean, are we talking about a shared phone bill or are we in a, in a cable box, or are we talking about like, were they dealing drugs together? Right. Yeah. They were so enmeshed and so codependent. So I, you know, I'm always really fascinated by the way that the audience has really.

Fallen into a space of like deep hyperbole when it comes to all of these people and all. 

Wait, can you elaborate on that? Can you, can you explain what you mean? 

Like the worst, like the biggest snake of all time? Like the person? Yes. Okay. I'm gonna be real with you. Um, they all know they're filming a TV show.

Yeah. Um, it sounds like Ariana was hard to reach. Yeah. I feel like, you know, they did have this, this is all on the record, that famous come to Jesus talk in season 11. Yep. Where like they said, basically we're gonna pull this show six episodes into filming if you guys don't get your fucking act together.

Yep. 

Now, I don't know if Ariana, wa, Ariana wasn't in that meeting or if she took something different away from it, but I feel like if. Maybe there, if there was more communication and if people were more in a place of picking up the phone, like there could have been a thing where it's like, listen, I have to do this.

The producers are telling me I have to do this, um, so I'm gonna do it. But like, we're still friends, right? Because like, yes, the stakes are different and it's, and it's, uh, people get very emotional about this as well. But like, yes, of course the stakes are different for people who have children. 

I like girl that, I'm sorry to cut you off.

That like mindset that people have around like

the, the way, and I don't like, I've, I've never liked Lala, I've never liked Lala. Well, maybe her first season, but then like I, 

I kind of fuck with her. 

But check this out. I really didn't like her during the scan of all reunion because I was like. Why are all of, why is everybody like fangirling over Lala?

She's obviously doing this performatively, like she doesn't, she's projecting her shit onto Ariana. To me, that was very clear. James was doing the same thing and fuck him like, but then when Lala was disloyal, air quotes to Ariana, in which case who I, I, I look at the fans and some of the shit that they say and I'm like, if your boss got you together and said, Hey, you're gonna have to, like, if your coworker doesn't start, start talking to your other coworker, like.

I don't know how you're gonna be able to take care of your kid. Like, 

yes. And by the way, like I am not saying that as a non-married, childless person, that I don't have a seat at the table or a voice in the conversation or whatever. And maybe I'm completely cued by the patriarchy or whatever. But like to me, no.

If you have a child like you are in sign, and maybe this is also me being a product of a single mom, like you are sincerely more fucked than, than if, than, than maybe like a someone like me. If something like that happens, I don't have to worry about a, you know, making sure that I have a two bedroom apartment for me and a kid, like I don't need to worry about a certain standard of living, keeping a kid fed and dressed and taking 'em to school and all that stuff.

They, they do. So, and, and that is a, a different level of responsibility that I would be ignorant to ignore. 

And I think part of this, tell me if you've seen this too, was so after. After the audience turned on Lala, after having been like taken something as corny and benign as send it to Daryl and making it like the top merch drop of fucking 2023 or whatever the fuck I have too.

I've heard they're comfortable. I've heard they're very comfortable in really nice quality. Second, the second 

one with the embroidery is really nice. Yeah, it hurt, 

but it's so funny that like the audience invested in her in that way because of Ariana, and then I, well, I guess it, it does make sense and then turned on her.

But then the rhetoric that if you used it towards Ariana, like the most basic example is like, you know, lose them. How you got 'em. You know what I'm saying? They, they will take that kind of mentality against Lala. Like, we don't care what happened. The shit that, and I've been screaming this from the rooftops, Molly, the shit that happened with Lala is incredibly fucking dark.

And that's yes, takeaway from fucking Ariana's situation. But I'll tell you this, if I had to choose, and I never, I hope I never have to. But if I have to choose with like my longtime boyfriend who I live with, cheats on me with one of my friends or the father of my child, uh, allegedly is like engaging in like, uh, CS a material and like pushing me through a window.

And I have to co-parent with him because I don't have the finances to like stand independently because I got my, I did get myself in this situation, but I was also like in my early twenties, you know, seduced by a fucking. 

Yeah. And I don't care if people say like, well, she just wanted a check. It's like, well, yeah, but like, I don't think that she necessarily was working with all the same information.

And there's actually really technically nothing wrong with, um, being interested in a man because he meets your needs, like your financial needs. It's actually not inherently bad behavior. In 

a way, Ariana and her ne her financial needs were met if she was split in the house with, with Tom and Sure, sure.

And like, I think that, um, I mean, I don't really know about that either. I don't really know about that. I'm talking 

shit. 

And I mean, I'll say I, I will, I will say that, um, you know, I went on the Vanderpump uh, rules, read it the other day when I was talking to Rob and it, the first thing was like, I hate Lala, but this is actually really sad.

And it was like a pull quote on an Instagram post of like, Randall Emmett was invest investigated as part of a child pornography ring or something. And I was like. I was like, okay, but like, why do you need to preface this with, I hate Lala, but like, I think that we can all acknowledge that there are certain things that no one deserves.

Like pick your, the worst person you've ever met in your life. They still don't deserve that. And until we can all get on the same page about that, like a lot of people do not like Blake Lively, uh, for their own reasons, but like in terms of this workplace harassment and retaliation thing, it's like, you know, yes.

Like this tone deaf person who's annoying and blah, blah, blah, and all the things that you can say about her that are true and, and mostly opinion based, but, but many are valid, right? Uh, like she still doesn't deserve that. And when we can only agree finally, when we get down to everyone agreeing that.

Despite all of these other warts and all these other things that come with this person, no one deserves to be retaliated on for reporting workplace sexual harassment. 

Right? 

Like, we cannot move forward, right? Like you have to, uh, like the, the like laws are made to protect the most marginalized, like yeah.

We have, um, you know, like one of the reasons why pro-choice is so important is not just so like the you and Eyes of the world can go by Plan B, it's that, so like the, you know, the 11-year-old who is assaulted by some community leader and is forced to care, you know, we have to take care of the fringes of society and the, and the 0.05% of like the worst statistics we have to take care of them first.

And if like the rest of us happen to fall under it, great. Like, that's it. And so I, I, um, you know, I am very, I always say this though, like when it comes down to like who I like and don't like on the show. Yeah. Um, and like there is a cast member that I really dislike. Thank you. And I'll let let you guess who, but Yeah.

But I'm sure you can. But I. Um, say that at the end of the day, I, I love all of them. Yeah. Like, and I, I have to. 'cause I, if I didn't love all of them, I wouldn't watch this show. Yeah. And so, like, you know, even though there's certain feelings that are kinda like nasty and could be examined and I can pull them apart and critique or whatever, like ultimately, I think I do love all these freaks.

I do. 

I mean, I, it would be, it would be very hypocritical of me not to, uh, to, to say anything otherwise. Like obviously I fucking love them. I watch them. Um, I'm glad you pivoted into your least favorite, uh, cast member. Uh, 'cause I have mine, and I think they might be the same. They might not be, but it's kind of the like final puzzle piece in the Vanderpump Rules, fandom hysteria that broke out in 2023.

There was this thing that was actually happening before scan of all. I hated, I'm gonna tell you what, what was going on. 'cause I was there. I remember, I thought it was so bizarre when Season 10 premiered, uh, Katie Maloney and Tom Schwartz had gotten divorced and or were in the process of divorce. And the storyline going into season 10 was kind of like, oh, Raquel might have a crush on Tom.

And I want for listeners to really keep in mind here that Molly and I are, we're, we're working not only from just watching the show, which you, you actually brought up in an episode with Rob. And I think that's really important. Like, there are people that just watch the show. I, I can't do that anymore if I ever did.

Like, I have to take into consideration the real mechanics behind what's going on. And it doesn't have to be in like a completely conspiratorial way. It doesn't have to be like Ariana and Tom fucking, uh, set up a cheating scandal. Like, not that just like. Truly just like how production works. There are things that are gonna be a little different anyway.

Yeah. You always see it and like, um, even I'm just like watching Special Forces now for mm-hmm. One of my podcasts and like Yeah. Um, there's certain moments where like, uh, like this one guy who's an actor had to like, uh, Ravi v Patel is his name, and he walked up to Jesse Smoot and he was like, so like, I never heard like you had a thing.

Right? Like, I never heard about it. And like, it was clearly like a producer had sort of sent him in to say that, go talk to Jesse. Yeah. Yeah. You can't help but like, sort of see behind the production of certain things and which I think was so, what was, what broke the audience's minds about the final season of.

Scan, like our Vanderpump rules post scan of all because, um, like it, I it seemed as though they had never considered that. Yes, yes. And it's like, well, duh. Like of course 

you, you said in that episode you had just seen a post, I think maybe it was on Twitter, that someone was like, I don't, like, I don't like the fourth wall breaking because it kinda, it ruins the show for me.

And I've seen that sentiment a bunch of times. I think for me, I'm the exact opposite, or particularly when a show's been going on for as long as Vanderpump Rules was. And now I'm, I'm interested in how, like, how fascinating it is that their, their whole goal was like to become celebrities. Then the person that became the biggest celebrity was the person who arguably did the least like reality showing of all of them.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is like, 

it like to her credit, like that was smart. I think that it's what I think that's why she's a 

star. Yeah. Yes. 

Like there's a lot of people on that show who could not be a spokesperson for batteries or could not go host like Love is Blind and because they have too much. Out there that's like to available to pick apart with like Ariana, like, uh, uh, the worst I think people could say is at certain points she could have, um, you know, analyzed her internalized misogyny a little bit better or Sure.

Um, you know, like maybe she was getting her needs met selfishly at times or whatever. And like, those are very human things, but she like, you know, I mean if you're, if there's a way to do reality tv, especially on a show like this that really is warts and all, like she did it, right? Yeah. If I mm-hmm. Part of it, she was, she was the only one this could have happened to 

a hundred percent.

And she had the talent to back it up too, like Yep. And being a reality show. And I really believe this. I'm not just like bullshitting. I really believe that being a reality star is its own like talent. And I think that Sheena, for example, is a great example. I think Lala's a good example, even though I can't stand her like.

Like I, I think Lindsay Hubbard's another really good example to me of like people that are really good at reality television. I think Sandoval's, well, 

you know, Stassi is the one, when I think about STAs, about all of reality television, I think she's incredible. There's one person, her, but she's incredible mean.

I, I, I've sensed that, but I will say is that, sorry. No, I don't care. I mean, it seems outta, I mean like, come on. I, and like, by the way, I don't take any, I mean, like, I don't take any of this per se. I, I think I always will feel very, a little protective of Ariana, but at the same time, I'm a. This is the thing where it's like, I like to stay offline.

Like I don't like to be too, IRL. Like I can love, appreciate and respect her, but I also really wanna talk about this show. Yeah. Because I like to talk about the show. Yeah. Um, like no, I, I just think that Stassi Schroeder was born to be famous. She was. And she has that there's something, it feels like it was a, all the right DNA happened at the right time to create someone who also instinctively knew that getting a chin job, which, like, I've never, I never even heard of.

Like, she fucking stop. I've never seen someone fucking set themselves up and fucking nail it at every point. Like the faith shit aside. If you can even push it to the side, the faith shit aside, I have never seen someone fucking knock it out of the park like her. Oh yeah. It's crazy. It's like watching general, it's like watching Prime Kobe.

I'm Kobe, 

I have a friend. Who is 26 and she, she was a really big, like e, like E network reality fan, but she's never watched any Bravo. And I told her for my birthday this year, which is in March, I really want her to be caught up. Like I want her to watch Vanderpump Rules. She started this week and she's like one of my best friends, but best friends, she doesn't, she doesn't understand.

She knows I went and met Sheena, but she knows I named my cat. She knows she doesn't, she doesn't understand. So she texts me yesterday and says, wait, how do you feel about Stassy? And like if you listen, which she doesn't listen to my podcast 'cause I primarily she does, I think 

sometimes those make the best friends, if I'm gonna be honest what I'm like, I know some people take offense to people that don't listen, like they're friends, listen their podcasts.

I'm like, I would prefer if you didn't 

please, you know what, be best if you don't. Um, but she, she doesn't know. Like I've, I've kind of gone on like a few tirades about Stassi. Like I really find her. Terrible. But it's funny that she doesn't know that about me, that that's like, I've made that part of my thing and she goes, how do you feel about Stassi?

And I said, she's, she's in season one. I said, for where you are in the season and where you are in the series, I'm gonna tell you this. Stassi is the, she is unprecedented reality tv and there's nobody greater than her. Yeah. I said, and then I said, she also got a chin implant implant that changed the trajectory of her life.

Yeah. And she was like, wait, I didn't know. And then she saw, she was like, holy shit. I was like, never has a chin implant. Done. More, more work. But it it, 

it's like the knowledge and the wisdom to analyze your face at 18 and say. Because I would guess, I don't think I would've, it, it would've occurred to me 

no 

until my thirties that it was even possible.

And one, I will say the night that I met Stassi, she let me touch her chin and play. Can you feel it? Wait, can you, it's very, it's very slight, but like, yeah, you can feel it. It's like a little, it's like, it's like a, it's maybe like a Frito, like a Frito scoop, but like, oh my God.

It's incredible. That's incredible. It's very slight, but like you can tell and like it has just done. It's job. Yeah. And like to have the, to have the foresight to say, this is my problem. Yeah. I've done the research like, you know, out of all the surgeries you can get, it's also a fairly, I would imagine, inexpensive one, right?

Affordable ish. Yeah. 

Yeah. And so I was just like, God, you know, like all those girls out there that get like their nose job for their 16th birthday or their tits done for their 18th, I'm like, maybe you need to, you know, if, if this is, we're in a place where mommy and daddy are playing for plastic surgery.

Some, I think some people could have really used the thought of the Stassi Schroder ingenuity of, yeah, I just need a slight chin implant. Yeah. Like fucking off to the races, dude. Oh 

my God. Yeah. She's 

next level. But, um, yeah, as, as you were, I think getting to 

it's Katie is the worst. She's the worst. So that is what I was getting to.

And um, I mean. Natural beauty, beautiful woman. Um, but oh yeah. Uh, and I don't have to preface that, but it, it always kind of like pisses me off. I'm always kind of like, I wish, I wish you weren't as beautiful as you are, but it makes her evil. Um, and so I think, but here's 

the thing is that the worst part is, is she doesn't know it.

Which I know goes back to what you were saying about when she was sort of tapping into the idea that Schwartz and Raquel maybe had a little something going on. You know, she's like sitting there and she's calling her a whore. Yeah. And like that is a Kate that is a consistent Katie problem. That word has stayed in her mouth.

She probably still uses it now, I'm sure like Katie is the ultimate victim of the patriarchy on that show. I feel like she is. It's beyond. 

And what does it say though, about the fandom, that there's such a post scandal of all, there's such a reverence for her. Is it rooted in. Sometimes when I want to get really conspiratorial 'cause, and I don't, I actually don't think this is conspiratorial.

I think this is like, I think I'm working within reason. Maybe I'm not. Uh, I think that what, whoever who, whatever team is behind the Queen Ariana thing is, uh, incredible. And I, I do think that there was some, some social media manipulation by way of like PR pushing out, like. More positive things, maybe a little 

bit, but I will say that Bravo, I I will say that Bravo has never needed that, that yeah, it has the most organic, organic, eager, like since pretty Little Liars, I have not seen an organic audience that's made a push like that on online.

Like Bravo is just its own ecosphere. It's like it is profitable to be in the business of Bravo. Yeah. And so, and um, you know, like I remember when Ronnie and Ben started crapping. I met them like, sort of right when they started it. And like at the time I was like, oh, like, you're, like I was, I, I thought it was taboo that they were talking about it.

And like all these years later it's like, oh my God, you guys were like at the forefront of what ultimately became one of the most profitable niches that you can live in. Um, like. You know, and I'm not, like, I don't, I'm not intimating that I know anything about their situation. I'm just saying that like, they better be successful.

Bravo. I hope they're bravo con. Like, bravo, like, you know, like, I mean, God, there's fucking people who are making a killing off of just making Bravo inspired Christmas ornaments and tchotchkes and blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Um, so I think that the ecosphere is, is there naturally, and it is, it's very eager to do that.

And I think like the topic of cheating is, is, um, really insane. I will tell you this about Katie. I think that there's a lot of people out there who have had loser husbands and loser ex-boyfriends that they've dropped along the way and thrived after. Yeah. Um, but like here's, here's the thing with Katie.

Yeah. 

And this is the thing that I find. I and like despicable consider. Okay. I wanna say this despicable sounds like an insane word given what I'm about to attribute to her. Okay. Um, but like to me, I think so little of this quality in a person that I do think it's the exact words I want to use, it's like she's a wagon Hitcher.

Yes. Like she is someone who has never had her own fucking thing. Yep. She has never sat in the trenches and in the discomfort of being friends with someone who is really disliked. Yeah. Um, even when, you know, uh, she finally gets back with Stassi after, as, after Stassi has like, you know, gone by, you know, through trial.

Trial by fire. What was it? Is that trial by fire? Trial by, 

yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Right. 

You know what I'm saying? 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Like tribulation where like she had to go through her, um. Humiliation ritual. You know, Kristen was the Yeah. Her fucking Illuminati. Humiliation ritual. Yes. Like finally, Katie's like, okay, you know, and they go and they meet up and they have a very, as Stasia is an egg solid sandwich, which is like burned into my brain.

Yes. Because I'm like, what a strange thing to eat when you're trying to mend fences with someone. 'cause I. You try to mend fences with me and you're eating an ex salad and I'm not gonna be able to stop thinking about the goddamn ex salad. 

Yeah, no, I would be very put off by that. I'm just 

very afraid of ex salad.

I think too, I hate it 

is 

at the core of it. Yeah. But I've never, I've never had a bite. So this is what I will say though, is that Katie, Katie, once they're all back together, they do the witches of we all wine, she immediately starts triangulating Kristen. Yeah. And like, you know, I guess the Carter stuff must have been pretty bad, but like I have never seen Katie sit in the trenches with someone and really like fucking beat in there.

Yeah. And she always finds the person who is on their way toward a come up and Ariana was not the obvious pick for her when they decided to do, um, something about her originally. Right. But I think. When she first decided to do something about her with Ariana, she made sense because it was almost trying to get a lick back at the Toms, where it's like, you're not hot shit.

Like we're gonna start a sandwich shop. Yeah. And. So that's how they sort of got aligned. And like also her other girls were out on the show. Kristen and Stassi had been booted for their, you know, racism. Yes. Um, which by the way, like if you ever wanna watch pure fucking nightmare fuel, stasio and Tamron hall's, the worst thing I've ever seen.

It's, I will never, I'll never forget watching that. I'll never forget watching that. 

I cannot believe that there even is a racism teacher. Um, but then 

like she didn't done no damn racism. Teacher ass bitch. No, I think she 

really did have a racism tutor. But like, I believe that, um, that, and by the way, what a killing that would've been to have like, make, uh, back, you know?

Oh yeah. Like, oh, in 2020, oh my god, that would be a killing. Like if I ran, oh my God. Like please start a business like that. Like if, yeah, if you can, if you're in a position to, to tutor a wealthy white person who has problematic optics, like do it. Make all the money. Please. Yes, please, please. So, I, I will say though, that like, I just, I hate that Katie is such a wagon hitcher and that she's failed up at every turn because No, the thing is, is that it has never made her a nicer person.

No. It has never made her a more empathetic person. Um, she is such a hater to her core in a way that I can't, like I think there's some people out there who I call them quote unquote great haters, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's great haters of the world where it's like, I, this guy never has anything to say that's not negative, but I like following him because he is negative, but he doesn't somehow, like there's an absence of dark energy, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, 'cause I like, I like, I like a hater who is like hating for sport and, and, and doesn't bring a darkness to it. Right. Um, Katie has a darkness to her. She does. That is. Um, is she, she feels like a very unhealed individual to me. Yes. That earned earned a badge of being healed. Yes. Um, un in a, in an unwarranted without warrant.

Way 

Without warrant. Yes. Yes. Without warrant. She got, uh, to this day yesterday, I saw someone say, I don't even know why, but they were like, well, oh, right, because she's now filming Stassy says with Stassy Shoulder. Yeah. And someone said, who, by the way, 

like, they had one of, sorry. They had one of those weird friendship breakups, like briefly, where it's like, oh, like we're in different places in our lives.

And I'm like, why? Because she had a kid. Like, I hate it. I I hate it. 'cause I love my friend's kids. And I, it's like, I don't, I don't believe in that. Like it, no, I think 

that that was for optics. I think that she, like, I, I think very much, and I think, I think you're a fan, so I apologize, but very much like.

Taylor Swift. I don't think she like, actually, like, I don't think Taylor Swift actually stopped being friends with Blake Lively. I think that she just kind of like, oh, she's not, I don't think flew under the radar. Don't think she is. I think she is still friends with Blake Lively. No, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. I don't think that, uh, just, I think that Katie, I think it's 

ongoing litigation and that Yeah, they have the, like, 

it's complicated. Uh, with Katie, I think that she just didn't tell the public that she was still friends with Stassi 'cause it looked bad. But then she turns around and gets like lauded as being like the most genuine, the most authentic, the like, some sort of badass bitch.

And I, I just wanna say like guys, because at one point in season 11, Katie and Lala get into a back and forth and I was like, neither these bitches can fight neither one. They can't fight. I don't know why we're even pretending. Like either of them can fight. I don't know what they're going on about.

They're both so in insufferable physically. Yeah. 'cause they were like, 'cause remember when Katie was like, say it with your chest, and Lala was like, they were like sitting in the, in the apartment. Yeah. It's all 

so fake and it's like, it's so fake. And by the way, like, and I think it's a GI think honestly it's probably a positive trait to not be able to fight.

Um Oh no, but I'm just 

saying don't act like you're, don't say stuff like say it with your chest. I'm the white. Yeah. Like, don't do all that. Stop. Yeah. Yeah. 

Um, well, yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I think we're on the same you page. We're 

very much on the same page about Katie. Do you think, like, what do you think makes people, oh, well my point there was that people are like, well, I think that Katie's really grown and, and changed enough to have a relationship with Stassi.

And I'm like, where are you getting this? She hasn't been on TV in two years. She, she didn't change a, nothing, nothing that the, you know, what the most, the thing that made me think that she had changed the most over the course of like four years, she and Sheena did a con, uh, commercial for elf makeup together.

Oh yeah. No, they, yeah, they did a, the elf makeup. I don't, were they in the chilies one together? I can't remember. 

No, that was Lala, uh, Sheena and 

Ariana. Right. So she, they did that Elf Cosmetics thing and I was like, this is actual growth from Katie sitting with Sheena. 

So I, having a conversation 

with her, 

I see the Stassi friendship breakup thing as very differently than I think.

You might, I don't know. So I don't think that she ever stopped being friends with Stassi. 'cause she was at her wedding. I think she was in her wedding. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Um, I, but I do think that after Stassi had Hartford or whatever, uh, her daughter's name is Oh yeah. Hartford. Yeah. Like they, they weren't, she's her, she's Hartford's godmother.

Right. But I 

don't think that they were around as much because Katie was still in like a going out part of her life. Okay. Okay. And it's only now because I'm sure that Stassi, like, it can't just be like Taylor struck her on Stassi says, or whatever. So like they have to bring in more Yeah. They have to bring in more like seasoned reality people that people might recognize.

Yeah. And so I, I think that, but I don't think Stassi and Katie ever were not friends. Just maybe like did even 

publicly. 

Y Oh no. I think publicly they were always friends, but it was like the thing, I think the thing that, um, people were picking up on was that they weren't hanging out as much. And I think the reason that was always explained, and I think this is the truth, is that Katie wasn't around as much because she was like in a dating and going out part of her life because she had just gotten divorced.

Right. And Stassi had just married and had kids. 

That makes sense. 

Yeah. But I see what you're 

saying. 

Yeah. And I always just thought that was like whack because I felt like, you know, I don't know. I just thought that was just like fucking whack. Like, I'm like, thank, I mean like, you know, stuffy still fucking slamming cocktails over there and like doing whatever, like, oh yeah, go hang out with your friend and her kid.

Like, you know? Yeah. And like maybe Bo has some friends he can introduce you to like. I don't know why you need to, you know, I don't know, but like, I don't wanna, this is the thing is that I have no interest in micromanaging Katie Maloney's reality. I don't, and I don't think that, uh, she would let me if I wanted to.

But I, I will say that, like, to me, I, I don't know, sometimes I think it's like whack when like, um, you're just like, oh, we just like stopped talking because they had a kid like, 

well Molly, what I think you're really not understanding is that Katie's really punk rock. And she's like, really? Alternative? I can't wait.

No, you, you have and yeah. How much? She's just like, warped tour. Wait. And no one knew it until she stepped in the room at 45, like one had ever heard of it. I had Katie, 

Tom on my podcast, please advise. Like back in the day and I. Oh my God. I'm like dying of embarrassment. 'cause also if you like go listen to that episode, like I think I open up with like a five minute rant about how I think I'm finally ready to have sex with the guy from Met on Tinder.

And That's amazing. So it's like so embarrassing. And like in the episode, Katie also like repeatedly calls one of our callers like a whore, which was like my, my friend Christina and I are like, 'cause she was, I think she was sort of like being the other, like she maybe was interested in someone who had a girlfriend or something like that.

Oh, okay. And it was 'cause people, it was please advise so people would like write in letters, like try get advice and like, you know, there was always like a little bit of a comedy edge to the show. But one of the things I asked Katie with all, or I said to Katie with all sincerity was like, so you're kind of like, you know, like you're kind of like the cool like alt one on the show.

And it wasn't like, now that I look back, I'm like. She didn't, I, she definitely wasn't registering it as shade, and I certainly did not mean it as shade. I think that I was trying to allude to, um, the fact that Katie had said that she wanted to be like a music manager, music. Right, right, right. And like her, her username being music kills Kate.

So like I, I thought that like, there was a, I was trying to like have her open up about like her rock music sensibilities. Right. And I just didn't, she has none. So I did not stick the landing there. And like, it's like when you say that it's I God. Yeah. I'm like, go, what if you, 

what if you are the reason.

That Katie is now with that guy from sleeping with sirens or whatever. Oh, I'm 

definitely not like, and that's the thing is like, I just think that she could not, she was like, 

what? 

No, no, no, no, no. I think that that's real about her. Like, yeah. Being that girl, I just think that like the way she re received it, she was kind of looking at me being like, I guess, and I'm like, yeah, come on.

You're the one with like a, you know, one eighth of a leopard print sleeve. Yeah. Like, you're like, come on. Like, oh, like, you know, like you're with it. Like this is the thing that you're, this is the brand you're curating. And I guess maybe I just didn't know how to ask the question, but I No, no, no, no. I certainly am not, uh, I'm not claiming, I, I, I think that I'm referencing my, in my inability and my attempt to stumble into drawing that out of her, but failure to do so 

well, I think, I don't think.

I, I don't think Katie's great for reality television. I don't think if the fandom had gotten what they wanted, which was apparently like a show about a sandwich, you know, um, with her as the lead, I don't think she would've thrived in that environment. 'cause I don't think she's very good reality television.

I don't think she's easily produced. Oh. I just think she's like, I think she's just kind of like, she's a follower and a hypocrite and she's gonna kind of go with whatever is like the most popular thing and she's just gonna do that. 

Yeah. I mean, you're pulling out all my greatest hits here because like I have said this time and time again with like, you know, when we were transitioning out of what would ultimately be a canceled season of Vanderpump Rules, people were saying like, oh, I just don't think they should do the cast anymore.

I think that they should just do like the sandwich shop and Yeah. Um, I remember pushing back in the Reddit. Saying like, well, who would wanna watch? Like respectfully, like Lisa Vanderpump got to have a show about running, sir, because she had done like hard time as a real housewife and had this restaurant where there was genuinely all this stuff going on, but like, what are we supposed to watch?

You know, um, like there's no drama, there's no inherent drama in running a sandwich shop. No. And um, it's so funny because Anne, who Tom's old assistant is my boyfriend's ex-girlfriend from like our That's wild. Our twenties and, 'cause my boyfriend and I have dated twice. We dated in our twenties and we dated in our late thirties and forties.

Yeah. And so, um, and like I have nothing but like the nicest, kindest thoughts of Anne. Yeah. But like the idea of Anne, Katie and Ariana, like bringing a fucking slamming hour of Bravo is like, is crazy because I know what Bravo fans like. Right. And like, I don't think they'd wanna introduce that chaos into something about her.

And I just, I, this was like the moment where I realized I don't think Bravo fans know what they like about Bravo. 

Absolutely. They, there's a lot of, and I, I think this is a really good point to end on because there's. A lot of like a, a sentiment that kind of was born out of this like, uh, girl ification of Vanderpump Rules post Sandoval, or whatever the fuck.

I think like, I also saw across other Bravo shows around the same time this like verbiage around like the shows being too dark and like we, we, you know, we just wanna get back to like women being rich and living their lives. And it's like, it never really was about that. It was never that like, and it was always drama.

And why the fuck would I wanna, I, I don't give a fuck if they don't have any, if if I don't wanna engage on television with people just like doing shit. And there's no like complexity, there's no like relationships and, and relationships

have. Ups and downs. Like maybe they're not all dramatic, that's why not everybody has a goddamn reality show. You know what I'm saying? Right. But if I'm gonna watch you on tv, I'm watching for like the spectacle, I'm watching for like something, uh, that, that, that is the acceptant to the rule as far as like standard, uh, friendships or relationships or forming those friendships or workplace relationships go.

Right. And I think that the fandom, they, they say that they want all of these things, but they don't understand and then they don't wanna engage in like the fourth wall breaking Yeah. But then they don't want, they, I I just don't under, I don't, I really, especially when it comes to Vanderpump rules, I don't know what the fans want, you know?

Well, I think it, this is it, right? Like we all love a stew or like a nice soup. Right. Totally. Um, and I think that that's what. These shows are, and it's like eventually, like, you know, all of these flavors get melted together, but like, if you turn up the heat, which is bound to happen, anytime you've been doing something like this for long enough, and like it's, it starts to rise.

Like no one, everyone knows that moment of like, you're boiling a fucking something and then like the water starts to spill over the sides and you're like, ah. And like it goes into disaster. And it's like, unfortunately in these pressure cooker situations that these people are in, like there's gonna be that unattractive moment that you, uh, that you have, you're, you're forced to reckon with where everything bubbles over and no one wants to think about the beautiful bowl of stew they're eating as something that.

Was once, once like splashing over the sides of the pot or like whatever burning you. That's the reality is like these things, it happens. And so, and, and like I will say that Bravo always does like a nice, like cleanup on aisle nine. Like, you know, I, I say I know that you want to talk about, um, the Valley and I am not as well versed in the valley, but I will say this is that I have high hopes for Janet's future because Me too, the way that I've seen her get spat upon Yeah.

Um, in these first two seasons and really like, you know, uh, accumulate a lot of negativity to, to the point. That, uh, she's like public enemy number one on Bravo a little bit. Yeah. Like, like the New York Post or, or page six or whatever posts like, you know, Janet's escaped to the country. Well, just so you know, Bravo, Bravo fans, just so you know.

That officially means that she is going to be your favorite character in season three. Yep. Like, like you can, you, you have to realize is that with the, the, this is the beauty and the flow of these things is that as soon as someone is the most hated person, something insanely redeeming is coming down the pike.

And does that mean that that person is a, has actually changed as a person? Um, no. No. Maybe it means that you never saw who they were at all. Because this is an edited reality TV show. Yes. 

Yes. And, 

um, and, uh, it's just there like, you know, it's gonna be a more favorable edit. And then of course the cast is going to probably come at her with a lot of extra energy knowing that she is the most hated one next season, which is gonna give her an easy opportunity for redemption.

Yep. So it's like, that's the one thing that's like, you know. And again, I think this might just be a little bit of how my brain works. It's like we gotta do some more pattern recognition. You guys like, yeah. Who would've saw the fall of Stassi in season three or at the end of season two, only to come back and be like HBIC again?

It's like these people always get an opportunity to redeem themselves in this world, and it's because you let them. 

Yeah, absolutely, man. Molly, thank you so much for coming on and talking to me. Yeah. I do this all day 

with you. 

I literally, I could literally talk for another hour and a half. Um, gotta go see Wicked.

So, um, won't be able to do that tonight, but I would love to have you back on if you would ever like to come back on. I know that Yeah. My audience loves you and would love to hear more from you. And in the meantime, where can they find you? Until you, until you come back. Yes. 

So if you know Vanderpump Rob, we host a weekly podcast called Halsey Together.

If you just look up Halsey, H-A-L-F-S-I-E-S, um, look up that or just search trend lightly even, and it'll bring you to the feed that we're in. Um, and you can also find me on Mother May's Sleep, a podcast. We're just finishing our season review of. Uh, special Forces, world's toughest test. Nice. But I'm looking for something to go into next, and I'm thinking it's either gonna be a Catching Kelsey rewatch.

Okay. We're either gonna go back to the, the core of what the show is and hit some of the big lifetime original movies that I've missed in recent years, or I don't know what, but we're also thinking traitors. And then Rob is trying to go me into, uh, a Survivor season 50. Ooh. I've never, I haven't, well, I've seen Survivor, but I, I haven't, I've never 

seen Survivor.

And, and this is the, my friend Jess that's doing special forces with me. She's like a big quote unquote gamer. Um, and so. I, yeah, you pegged me. I'm a, I am a swifty, so I am, I am. But separately, even if I wasn't, I think I'd still be so amped to watch Donna Kelsey and the return of Dorinda on the traitors, so yes.

Yes. All right. Well thank you for having me, Emily. You thank you. And you're angel. I hope you have so much fun and that you feel, do you feel Glenda Orba? 

I think I'm gonna just kind of go in with a, an BA mindset in a Glinda world, you know? Oh, wonderful. Okay. Yeah. Proud of you. Thanks. Anyway, thank you guys for listening, and I will talk to you guys later.

Bye-Bye.